LED Modular Growing System (=600W HPS)

[einfinity]

Hi to everyone, I am obviously new to your forum however I design LED lighting and Low Voltage Distribution systems. My company is currently working with a number of companies in the US, Taiwan, China, and Canada to design the first cost effective grow light for mass implementation. We thought it would be nice to get some input from every major community of growers.

Some information:

- 6 modules per unit
- Nuventix cooler per module
- A special high BTU heat exchanger per module (at the moment a secret)
- 2 Stage non-component power supply with isolation (cUL)
- Primary only lens process for high efficiency optics at 80°

Each module:
- 15 LEDs (5W diodes)
- LEDengin Custom Chips
- 6 Bands @ 365 nm, 425 nm, 460 nm, 610 nm, 630 nm, 660 nm
- Modular design for easy replacement

einfinity Reviewed by einfinity on 03-19-2012. LED Modular Growing System (=600W HPS) Hi to everyone, I am obviously new to your forum however I design LED lighting and Low Voltage Distribution systems. My company is currently working with a number of companies in the US, Taiwan, China, and Canada to design the first cost effective grow light for mass implementation. We thought it would be nice to get some input from every major community of growers. Some information: - 6 modules per unit - Nuventix cooler per module - A special high BTU heat exchanger per module (at the Rating: 5

[cidly24]

can you show our some you led lights picture?

[sx646522]

Hi there.

Hi to everyone, I am obviously new to your forum however I design LED lighting and Low Voltage Distribution systems. My company is currently working with a number of companies in the US, Taiwan, China, and Canada to design the first cost effective grow light for mass implementation. We thought it would be nice to get some input from every major community of growers.Some information:- 6 modules per unit- Nuventix cooler per module- A special high BTU heat exchanger per module (at the moment a secret)- 2 Stage non-component power supply with isolation (cUL)- Primary only lens process for high efficiency optics at 80°Each module:- 15 LEDs (5W diodes)- LEDengin Custom Chips- 6 Bands @ 365 nm, 425 nm, 460 nm, 610 nm, 630 nm, 660 nm- Modular design for easy replacement

What kind of input from the community, specifically, are you looking for? I did not see any sort of actionable question or request to folks here in your post. Meanwhile, some questions - and a few top-of-my-head musings - for you:

6 'Modules' in a powder coating finish? Sound like everything else on the market made by in Shenzhen by ledstar, cidly, et. al. - with the exception of the SynJet, which is woefully inadequate for active cooling duties if you're going to run 5w chips anywhere close to their rated levels in some sort of 'module' format, without spreading out the emitters into a much lower density. If you're going to do that, might as well just use high quality fans instead.

The best designs will always need passive cooling only - from large heatsinks and well-spaced emitters. Active cooling is merely a bonus after that, not a primary thermal management design priority. Dense modules will always cause entirely too many issues from high junction temperatures (Tj), uneven lighting distribution which mimics old point-source lighting inefficiencies, color shifting, de-rating, and all the rest.

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Q0: What kind of chips are you using, from what manufacturers?

Q1: Are you planning to run the entire module at the same mA using one driver per module? Why?

Q2: Do you have any plans for dimming circuits, either multi-channel or mono-? Will these be 0-10 VDC or PWM? If so, will these be programmable both in periodicity and duration, or manual control only?

Q3: Does your company have a name yet?

Q4: What is your anticipated true wattage draw, flowering coverage area, and estimated list price?

Q5: Why is there no multi-spectrum lighting, only monochromatic emitters? Get rid of the 610nm and add high-bin, neutral white (4000k) emitters instead. The CREE XP-E NW are now available in R3 bins, up to 122 lm/w. The 365's also aren't strictly necessary. Better to put more usable watts elsewhere instead.

Q6: Do you have an estimated release date yet?

-------

That's it for now. Ol' Weeze might stop by and have a few more for you soon, though. :smokin:

Cheers,

-SX

[davemedinis]

Hi, are you really able to offer the 365nm spectrum please?

[einfinity]

Hi there.
What kind of input from the community, specifically, are you looking for? I did not see any sort of actionable question or request to folks here in your post. Meanwhile, some questions - and a few top-of-my-head musings - for you:

6 'Modules' in a powder coating finish? Sound like everything else on the market made by in Shenzhen by ledstar, cidly, et. al. - with the exception of the SynJet, which is woefully inadequate for active cooling duties if you're going to run 5w chips anywhere close to their rated levels in some sort of 'module' format, without spreading out the emitters into a much lower density. If you're going to do that, might as well just use high quality fans instead.

The best designs will always need passive cooling only - from large heatsinks and well-spaced emitters. Active cooling is merely a bonus after that, not a primary thermal management design priority. Dense modules will always cause entirely too many issues from high junction temperatures (Tj), uneven lighting distribution which mimics old point-source lighting inefficiencies, color shifting, de-rating, and all the rest.

---------------

Q0: What kind of chips are you using, from what manufacturers?

Q1: Are you planning to run the entire module at the same mA using one driver per module? Why?

Q2: Do you have any plans for dimming circuits, either multi-channel or mono-? Will these be 0-10 VDC or PWM? If so, will these be programmable both in periodicity and duration, or manual control only?

Q3: Does your company have a name yet?

Q4: What is your anticipated true wattage draw, flowering coverage area, and estimated list price?

Q5: Why is there no multi-spectrum lighting, only monochromatic emitters? Get rid of the 610nm and add high-bin, neutral white (4000k) emitters instead. The CREE XP-E NW are now available in R3 bins, up to 122 lm/w. The 365's also aren't strictly necessary. Better to put more usable watts elsewhere instead.

Q6: Do you have an estimated release date yet?

-------

That's it for now. Ol' Weeze might stop by and have a few more for you soon, though. :smokin:

Cheers,

-SX

To answer a few of these, sorry for not adding a huge list of questions right off the bat, just wanted to throw something out there initially because I knew there would be someone who would respond to this just like you did, thank you very much.

Our Company is LumiEnergy and google is not your best friend in this case because we primarily do business with a small network of corporate clients, we are not just in the LED lighting industry, we also have a wide variety of Solar and Low Voltage power distribution which we supply to our clients. Our lead electrical engineer is responsible for the certification of the Smart Meters for the Canadian market about a decade ago.

Answers:

The Modular design is primarily for even mixing, and we are not trying to cover every type of plant in the world, we are narrowing to a few as well as customizing for two main applications: indoor high-rise, and greenhouse growing.

You are right, you've heard of the 6 module powder coated design, I don't really like the coating or the design, i'm more practical. There is nothing to hide, we are having the final case assembly (frame / bracket / mount) done in China due to the lower costs however the modules are a whole different ordeal, primary assembly in Taiwan.
Cost control is key to a successful commercial unit and we are going to explore options for assembly facilities in Taiwan in the future however due to the fact that there are companies in the China with equipment set up for mass production for a similar cutout it only makes sense to choose that option.
We have been working closely with LEDEngin to bring the specific spectrum mixture to the table. It has been tested with a few different plants, regrettably not Cannabis. Maybe in the near future it would be possible to conduct a study for verification.

A few more specifics:

- Another very important aspect to this is that most of our clients have between 5,000 to 25,000 lights at the moment, and in many cases this is for mass deployment therefore controls for dimming and switches are not a practical solution, I would say cross off this unit from your list if you want something for a smaller controlled operation. Our target would be mid-range Government licensed, or major Commercial operations.
- We are planning on using a dual-voltage supply for the unit as it needs to power the coolers and diodes however there is a sub circuit which will be in place, we are still making adjustments and due to the possibly lower efficiency this is still up for final production review.
- Final draw target would be hovering in the range of 260W Component + PSU Inefficiency
- The spectrum selected is based on research across many different plants and many different studies and I would have to say that UV is not necessary for some plants, and excessive amounts of UV can negatively impact some plants however it induces additional growth in some cases where a hint of it makes a world of difference. 600-610 nm is also a booster mainly and works in a similar way. IR spectrum was not used because we are working on major deployments, and in many cases a flash could be added with a separate module. Wide spectrum white light has made very little impact by comparison to the particular spectrum of choice here.
- We are not using secondary lenses, because we have direct access to the engineers at LEDEngin we are going to be using higher efficiency design as a way to achieve results, and with some minor modifications during the production of the LEDs we can increase the optical efficiency to 90%
- Nuventix SynJet is a very effective solution for this particular design as long as there dividers in the design, they are durable, moisture resistant and definitely provide lower junction temperatures even in this less than perfect configuration.

Estimated "Samples" would be available at the end of April, Our target retail would be near $500 and wholesale would be a completely different story.

All the best,

- V

[einfinity]

Hi, are you really able to offer the 365nm spectrum please?

Yes its not difficult, we can even adjust the spectrum slightly in production if we feel it may benefit the overall design

[sideshowmel]

The best designs will always need passive cooling only - from large heatsinks and well-spaced emitters. Active cooling is merely a bonus after that, not a primary thermal management design priority. Dense modules will always cause entirely too many issues from high junction temperatures (Tj), uneven lighting distribution which mimics old point-source lighting inefficiencies, color shifting, de-rating, and all the rest.

I agree with the passive cooling. I've tried both, and the fan based one made me worry constantly that it would fail. Must be worse in the mass manufactured ones where you can't get at it to clean the dust off so easily.

I don't necessarily agree with your point about emitter spacing. A sufficiently thick copper baseplate on the heatsink will dissipate kilowatts in an area the size of your palm as long as there are enough fins. Aluminium probably isn't conductive enough to do that, but I've had 50w of chips in a square inch without perceptible dimming (side by side with unused module from the same batch) after two seasons.

[einfinity]

I agree with the passive cooling. I've tried both, and the fan based one made me worry constantly that it would fail. Must be worse in the mass manufactured ones where you can't get at it to clean the dust off so easily.

I don't necessarily agree with your point about emitter spacing. A sufficiently thick copper baseplate on the heatsink will dissipate kilowatts in an area the size of your palm as long as there are enough fins. Aluminium probably isn't conductive enough to do that, but I've had 50w of chips in a square inch without perceptible dimming (side by side with unused module from the same batch) after two seasons.

We are definitely not talking about fans here, maybe in other designs however Nuventix coolers can take on water and continue running 100,000 hours, passive cooling would mean there would be simply radiating and sitting heat in one area, over long run times (theoretically speaking) it wouldn't be a good idea.
If we were to use passive cooling we would be talking about Copper Foams however to make that viable, the grow lights would cost somewhere in the $2500-3000 range. Fins alone would not satisfy our internal standard of < 50C peak temperatures at the thermal slug.

[einfinity]

Attachment 283750Updated spectrum, 595 to 610 nm was not adjusted in this one