Sickly plants

[gigimarga]

I must have the worst green thumb on the planet because I can't even keep a weed alive

- Initially I watered them a lot until the runoff PH showed 6.5 so I might have inadvertently flushed the soil.
-Temperatures are 75-81. RH is ~40%

I have two seedlings in Ocean Forest soil.

One of them [attachment=o279817] has stunned growth and exhibits yellow leafs bent up and weird bubbles. (first photo)

- Because of the yellowing curled-up leaf, I flushed it with SledgeHammer flush to remove nutrients.
- After that, it started showing bubbles under the leaf but the leafs remained curled and no new growth is noticeable.

The second one is larger, [attachment=o279818] it was growing better but now has yellow spots and droopy leafs (second photo)


- I didn't water this one for a week after adjusting PH until it started getting droopy and the soil was dry (moisture meter was reading 2 at the bottom of the pot).
- After watering, the droopiness remained with actually some more pronounced curling, and it started showing yellow spots with yellowing of the leafs.


What should I do? Add nutes with some water? Let them dry first?

gigimarga Reviewed by gigimarga on 11-04-2011. Sickly plants I must have the worst green thumb on the planet because I can't even keep a weed alive :( - Initially I watered them a lot until the runoff PH showed 6.5 so I might have inadvertently flushed the soil. -Temperatures are 75-81. RH is ~40% I have two seedlings in Ocean Forest soil. One of them has stunned growth and exhibits yellow leafs bent up and weird bubbles. (first photo) - Because of the yellowing curled-up leaf, I flushed it with SledgeHammer flush to remove nutrients. Rating: 5

[bigsby]

You are over engineering this thing. Keep it simple. First off, the FFOF has nutrients in the soil so don't add anything. For that reason, you are better off starting them in a seedling mix for the first two weeks. Many strains can deal with the FFOF but some can't. I start mine in peat pots with seedling mix which I put into the FFOF. Temps and RH are good. You could bring the RH up to 65% but honestly that isn't going to make or break your garden. If you are in FFOF there will be no need to measure runoff pH until 4 - 6 weeks into the grow at which point you should be up-potting them anyway. I don't know what those bubble are. Never seen anything like it. The other one is definitely stressed and looks to be suffering nute burn. At this point, leave them alone. They are also looking over watered. Give them 4 - 6 days to dry out. Then start watering with pHed water @ 1x every 4 - 6 days unless they start looking wilted. They won't need much water. 1/2 a small Dixie cup should be enough. Keep us posted!

[gigimarga]

Looks like they're both dead. I transplanted them but I have no hopes. They look totally yellow and brown now. During the transplant I noticed that the roots were all shriveled up right out of the rapid rooters. Crap soil if you ask me. Why would they make it burn stuff?

[CanGroIt]

- Initially I watered them a lot until the runoff PH showed 6.5 so I might have inadvertently flushed the soil.

- Because of the yellowing curled-up leaf, I flushed it with SledgeHammer flush to remove nutrients.

If you did flush the soil, then the yellowing new growth would be signs of a deficiency....

Crap soil if you ask me.

Definitely not the soils fault.... You probably did flush everything the lil ones needed....and overwatered them at the same time.... They grow best with a wet-dry cycle....

What size pots did you have them in when those pics were taken???

Sounds like you made it hard on yourself.... You need to use the right size pots, for the size of plant, for the proper period of growth.... Seedling = Small pot....like 3" or so.... After a solid root zone is built, up pot to like a 6-10".... And then Flower in whatever size is best for your space and final plant size.... And like already mentioned, let the soil almost dry before watering again....

Oh and welcome to the community....and don't worry about them dying.... Not everyone has a successful first try....what matters is that you keeep on trying....:jointsmile:....let the journey begin....

CGI::::::

[gigimarga]

10" pots. Probably two gallon.

I took apart one of the rapid rooters to see what the root really looked like inside. Looks like it never really developed out of the rapid rooter. It reached the bottom but never branched out.

Does that look like damage from the soil (which was outside of the rapid rooter), over-watering, or too much light?

Attachment 279848

[gigimarga]

I case anyone is interested, these were the plants right after transplant.
[attachment=o279849]

[attachment=o279850]

[CanGroIt]

It was definitely over watering that killed em.... 2gal of soil for such a small plant would have worked had you not watered them so much.... Like bigsby mentioned, about half a small dixie cup would be enough moisture to last a couple days or so for a rooting seedling....

What you need to understand about roots in soil - Roots want to stretch and find the very last bit of moisture in the soil.... If you make it too easy for them, i.e. over-watering them, the roots simply give up.... However you don't want to let the soil dry to the point of stress either.... Practice is the only way to find how much, for how long, works....

So you going to give it another go??? You mentioned too much light.... What size lamps you working with??? And how close were they???

CGI::::::

[gigimarga]

LED 90W about 15 inches away. No heat but I was worried it's too much light because those things are bright. Much brighter than any CFL I've seen so far in the Hydro store.

The changes I'm making for the next attempt.

One plant I've germinated and planted in rapid rooter. It's just starting to sprout under the humidity dome which has a heat pad underneath. I will let it sprout after which I will and develop more roots under some light. That I will transplant into a hydro bucket with an air pump and clay pebbles. I want to give hydro a try as it's easier to get air to the roots and easier to adjust/measure pH and PPM. The water in the hydro bucket is 6.0 pH and contains nutrients at a quarter of strength for the recommended fox farms feeding schedule.

The second plant is germinating now. This seed looks bigger than normal and it seems to be taking longer to show a root with the paper towel method. Once it's germinated, I plan to put it in a party cup which contains of Sunshine Advanced Rain Forest, which is supposed to be a no-burn formula and has endomicorrhizae in it, mixed with 25% perlite. Once the plant survives that, I plan to move it to the 10 inch pots with a mix of the Rain Forest, Ocean Forest, and 25% perlite.

On the party cup, how much water should I add? Are five holes for drainage enough? Should I avoid getting water on top of the seed? How often will I need to re-water that? Should I have a humidity dome on it until it sprouts?

[bigsby]

Your LED @ 15" will be fine. Do you know the wattage of each diode? Wattage dependent you won't want it much closer than 12" anyway, not b/c they will burn or bleach the plant but b/c of efficiencies gained from proper light spread. I keep my 3 watt diodes at 24" for starters and then move them down to 12" a week after the first set of true leaves appear. Note there are far wiser LED gurus here that can give you better guidance in this regard.

Concerning your seedling in soil, here is the standard recommendation. First, 5 drain holes are fine so long as they are big enough to serve the purpose. You can use a hot phillips head screw driver. Also put a couple of three holes in the side, low down. Add your seedling mix. Before planting flush with 2x water - 8oz cup = 16 oz flush. This is always good practice with any seedling mix no matter what the bag says. Let the medium drain thoroughly (1 hour?). It should still be thoroughly wet. Use a pencil to make a starter hole. Be VERY gentle handling the spout as any damage at this stage will likely cause death. Place your sprout such that the seed head is just below the top of the soil. Sprinkle in a bit of dried mix to fill the hole and cover the seed - it will only take a pinch. Then use a spray bottle set at a fine mist to water the seed into place. You can thoroughly wet it using the spray bottle. Add more mix if needed. You can cover with a humidity dome (cellophane) if you like but be sure to remove it as soon as the sprout pushes through the soil. If you use a humidity dome you probably will not need to re-water until after the spout appears. Even then you shouldn't require much water as the soil will be holding quite a bit from the flush. I use the spray bottle on seedlings 1x day during the first 2 - 3 days. Just enough to wet the surface with a little sinking in. Reduce water as the sprout becomes bigger and stronger. Over watering can lead to problems so if in doubt, leave it alone. Stretch the water progressively to encourage root development. Using an LED you will require less water than others who use standard lighting. By the 2nd week I am down to 1x every 4 - 6 days. And don't water until you get runoff until your little plant is well developed. There is no need. The roots aren't that developed. Water logging the medium just encourages issues like root rot and/or infestation. Keep it simple and remember, less is more. That and read all the stickies in the basic grow forum. When you're done that, read some more.

[gigimarga]

90 diodes*1 watt. I measured the actual draw and it's 86 watt which is better than first one I got which was only pulling 80. These UFO lights seem to very different from one to the other. I didn't notice any stretching so I assume they have plenty of light. I was just worried that I was giving them too much light.

As an update, I finally got the seed that goes into soil to germinate. It shows a very small root now but I'll probably plant it shortly and leave it in the dark until it sprouts.
The seed in the rapid rooter has already sprouted and is slowly opening. I might put it under one 40 watt cfl today and then tomorrow turn the UFO back on.

Some more changes I have made to my setup is, replaced the aluminum foil with mylar, added an oscilating fan and created flops for the intake/exhaust.