Sunroom Grow

[StoneMeadow]

I'm not having any trouble with my plants, but I thought I'd fill out the TroubleShooting Guide so everyone can see the details of my setup...

What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) First timer

Your Equipment:
1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) one 26w 5500k CFL above each plant, rated at 1500 lumens per bulb
2) Distance from tops? 1"-2", adjusted daily
3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) 8" round trouble-light aluminum reflector
4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes. sunroom has loose-fitting sliding-glass doors with an open ceiling vent and one door locked open several inches. lots of air exchange.
5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes, on 24/7
6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 26w 5500k CFLs on from when I bring the plants in at night until I take them back out to the sunroom, so the plants get 24-hour lighting during vegging. Plan to put plants in sunroom during the day for flowering with four 65w 2700k CFLs as needed to maintain 12/12 lighting.

Your medium:
7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...) Miracle-Gro Potting Mix. According to the label the actual nutes are: 0.21-0.07-0.14 (says it feeds plants up to 3 months)
8) Size of container. 3 gallons of dirt in a 4 gallon plastic kitty litter bucket. no drain holes
9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? yes, the clones were rooted in rockwool

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? private well water with pH of 7 from the tap, or 5.5 from the reverse-osmosis (RO)
11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) General Hyroponics pH test kit (drops and test tube)
12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) haven't adjusted yet, but I have muratic acid and lime on hand
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. "Alaska Fish Fertilizer" 5-1-1 @ 1 tablespoon per gallon (1 tbs/gal) of tap water, and "Alaska MorBloom" 0-10-10 @ 1 tbs/gal. 2 weeks into vegging plants now and plants get about 1/2 cup every day or every other day
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? RO water without nutes daily for 3 days after transplanting. every watering since then has nutes
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) 1 tbs/gal Brer Rabbit unsulphured molasses
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? stable
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? tap water with nutes and mollasses is 5.5 to plants. there is no runoff, but my electronic 2-prong soil meter shows about 6.8 one hour after watering. it also shows nutrient levels in the lower part of the "Ideal" range.
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? no

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? 8'x20' south-facing unheated indoor sunroom for about 8-10 hours a day on sunny days, the rest of the time in closet under lights
20) What size of closet, room or hut? closet has about 3'x3'x7' of available space
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? overnight temps in closet are about 70. I take the plants out to the sunroom when its temp hits 70 and leave them there until the sun is going down...typical soil temps on sunny days are mid 80s to low 90s. when the soil temp hits 90 I open one of the sliding glass doors to increase circulation. I don't have a relative humidity meter, but will get one.
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? no

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Sensai Early Skunk (indica dominant)
24) From seeds or clones? clones
25) Is this an autoflower strain? no

[emilya]

I love that troubleshooting form!
I realize that you are not having any problems right now and keep in mind that I am inexperienced... but two things popped out at me that I would not have done, and I wonder if it will cause problems for you in the future. I leave it to the real experts or your own research to determine if my observations have any merit here.

The first is your kitty litter tubs. I considered using those tubs myself because an aunt has lots of cats and seems to go through a lot of these tubs, but why no drain holes in the bottom of them? I realize it must be easier to transport them this way, but I am worried that stale water in the bottom of the tub will eventually cause root rot. You may be keeping this from happening now with your natural experience telling you how much water to add and when, but I am afraid that this is going to eventually cause you troubles as the water needs change. You have read my grow log and see how I use the point of runoff to determine the water needs of my plants. Also, I know that later there is a need to flush the plants if giving nutrients, and of course this is not going to work with a sealed tub. One could fix this pretty quickly with a large drill I would think but then you are going to have to collect the drainage somehow.

The other is your RO water. I think in every case I have seen someone using pure water, I have seen along with it suggestions to use Cal-Mag to add necessary nutrients back into the mix. Calcium, magnesium, iron, and, trace minerals deficiencies can be avoided this way. Now It may be that since you are also using well water that you may be getting these nutrients from there. If it were me, I would be familiar with how these deficiencies present as problems in your plants and be ready to act on it. I do think that it is easier to prevent than to cure however.

Other than that, I am in awe. Your sun room sounds like a wonderful place and has me thinking about the possibilities of getting my brother to build me an enclosed porch this summer. I'm thinking of a wonderful quiet and sunny place with ferns and azaleas and the african violets my mother always grew. Maybe a few veggies too. That and a good rocking chair. Everyone needs a nice place to practice smiling.


Emmie

[StoneMeadow]

...two things popped out at me that I would not have done, and I wonder if it will cause problems for you in the future.

The first is your kitty litter tubs. I considered using those tubs myself because an aunt has lots of cats and seems to go through a lot of these tubs, but why no drain holes in the bottom of them? I realize it must be easier to transport them this way, but I am worried that stale water in the bottom of the tub will eventually cause root rot. You may be keeping this from happening now with your natural experience telling you how much water to add and when, but I am afraid that this is going to eventually cause you troubles as the water needs change. You have read my grow log and see how I use the point of runoff to determine the water needs of my plants. Also, I know that later there is a need to flush the plants if giving nutrients, and of course this is not going to work with a sealed tub. One could fix this pretty quickly with a large drill I would think but then you are going to have to collect the drainage somehow.

You're correct, it's easier to transport the buckets without water dripping out the bottom, not to mention lower risk of water leaking into the carpet. And you're also correct that not having a built-in drain raises the potential for root problems and complicates flushing and transplanting. That said, I don't overwater my plants...a half-cup of water every day or every other day isn't going to accumulate much in the bottom of a pot with 3 gallons of dirt in it. Besides, that's "compost tea" draining out of the bottom of the pot when one adds enough water for it to run out the bottom! Why steal nutrients from your plants?

Plants really need only enough water to drink in a few minutes, which they use for growth and transpiration. More than that can suffocate the roots...or if it doesn't, it doesn't do them any good. My dad, who owned and operated a retail greenhouse for the last 20 years of his working life, was fond of saying that drain holes are for lazy people who can't control themselves to give their plants the correct amount of water. Don't take my word for the technique, though, if you search the archives for "The Sealed Room" you will find a very successful grow log from someone who uses this very technique to great success.

Moreover, I don't transplant more than absolutely needed. My clones went straight into their final buckets directly from having a half-dozen roots poking out of a rockwool cube, and never having seen soil. Done correctly, I concede that transplanting doen't set plants back any appreciable amount. I just dont think it's required, so don't do it more than needed. I'm on what I like to call the 90-10 plan...I get 90% of the results of fully optimized growth with 10% of the effort.

In the end we'll see how well my veggie growing habits transfer to mmj.

The other is your RO water. I think in every case I have seen someone using pure water, I have seen along with it suggestions to use Cal-Mag to add necessary nutrients back into the mix. Calcium, magnesium, iron, and, trace minerals deficiencies can be avoided this way. Now It may be that since you are also using well water that you may be getting these nutrients from there. If it were me, I would be familiar with how these deficiencies present as problems in your plants and be ready to act on it. I do think that it is easier to prevent than to cure however.

Perhaps I didn't make it clear enough in my previous post...I only routinely give my plants RO water for a few days after transplanting. After that I give them unfiltered well water for all waterings and feedings. I haven't had the county do a Title 22 test on my well water for mineral content, so I may have that done so I know from now on exactly what I'm dealing with.

Cheers!

[WashougalWonder]

I vote for holes in the bottom regardless. Emmie is right. Also with all those nutes be awful careful of burning. In miracle grow you don't need any additional nutes, in fact, adding more could easily burn these weeds or cause lockout.

[emilya]

I'm on what I like to call the 90-10 plan...I get 90% of the results of fully optimized growth with 10% of the effort.

:thumbsup:

It sounds that you are way more optimized than it first seemed to me. I suspect that you are going to end up with a wonderful crop. Your father obviously passed some of his knowledge down to you and as I suspected from the start, your experience growing things is way ahead of mine. I am learning that a certain amount of the "green thumb" comes simply from being able to "read" the plants and know what it is they are needing, and you had that ability long before you came here to try to grow MJ.

I have been conflicted each time I have responded to you because of this, and because I am new to this hobby and certainly have no business second guessing or criticizing someone else's garden. I do try to preface my comments with a reminder that I am a newbie and have only heard that things go this way or that. I am no expert and I know that it upsets those who are, each time someone like me makes a gardening comment. I understand why this is, that even well intentioned comments may inadvertently affect those who are growing for medical reasons and who's very well being of life could be affected by my well meaning but un-experienced comments. This is why I refuse to respond to "problem" or "diagnosis" type threads... it simply is not my place.

You stood out right away to me somehow as someone who knew what they were doing and I knew that I had something to learn from you. I think it was your FIM shot that did it for me. It was such a beautiful picture of a perfect FIM... and from someone new to the board! It was also obvious from your comments that you had been reading on this forum extensively. So, I have made these comments to you and attempted to understand your growing conditions to find that knowledge that I could feel was there. You have already taught me something here and the insights that you have, based on your experience with your father are priceless. Please keep them coming. I will continue to read your grow log with great interest as you figure out how best to care for the girls and the differences you see from growing vegetables. Count me as among your dedicated readers.

Emmie

[StoneMeadow]

I vote for holes in the bottom regardless. Emmie is right. Also with all those nutes be awful careful of burning. In miracle grow you don't need any additional nutes, in fact, adding more could easily burn these weeds or cause lockout.

Yeah, good point...I should emphasize that I am NOT recommending the no-drain technique for anyone else, especially inexperienced indoor gardeners. It's just what I do. Moreover, if you are questioning whether you are underwatering your plants, the odds are nearly 100% that you are OVERwatering them...

Your point about not over-fertilizing is also well taken. Miracle-Gro 3-month is pretty weak sauce (.21-.07-.14), and uses a time-release coating. Combined with the fairly weak added nutes I use COULD be too strong, but I keep an eye on them and haven't seen any issues so far. As a prophylactic I have I added a scant 1/4 teaspoon of Epsom Salts (magnesium sulphate) to the 'tea' I water my plants with to help preclude lockout.

Along those lines, last fall I did an experiment in my sunroom with tomatoes, collards and 2 varieties of peppers. Alaska brand fertilizers recommend 2-3 tbs/gal of water for veggies. I raised that incrementally to 6 tbs/gal before seeing signs of stress in the collards and peppers. Even though I saw nothing in the tomato, I terminated the experiment and flushed the plants (all recovered). Considering that my current regime is 1 tbs/gal, experience with a variety of plants tells me I'm probably in the safe zone. Of course, I haven't yet completed a medijuana grow, so the jury's still out. In any case, the results will be here for all to see.

It sounds that you are way more optimized than it first seemed to me. I suspect that you are going to end up with a wonderful crop.

Maybe, but we'll see. In the meantime, Emmie, please do NOT change your routine to mine based on my very incomplete results. That would be bad science! Besides, my grow conditions are very different to yours...yours is an indoor grow under HPS while mine is a hybrid sunroom-indoor grow with mainly natural light. We'll see how it turns out. In the meantime, have that brother of yours enclose the south porch. There's nothing like warm sunlight and the earthy smells of a healthy greenhouse to sooth the soul.

[StoneMeadow]

Today is 3 weeks into vegging for my 4 girls. Another week to go and I'll flip them into flowering. All are 10"-12" and looking real healthy and strong, so I am considering taking cuttings for more daughters before I flip them. Here are a couple of photos showing one of them 3 weeks ago and from an hour ago. The others look very similar. Enjoy!

[emilya]

Lookin good!

[StoneMeadow]

I changed my mind about waiting a week to flip my girls into flowering, so I light-proofed the closet yesterday afternoon and turned out the lights at 7pm. I'll turn them back on at 7am this morning. And I have a timer, which they'll be on starting tonight.

BTW, I'm running my lights and fan through a Kill-A-Watt meter. During the past two days I left the plants in the closet with the lights on while it was rainy and cold outside, the project consumed about 6.0 kwh over a 48-hour stretch, or about 0.125 kwh per hour of lighting. At 14 hours a day under lights for the first 19 days of the grow, and $0.135 per kwh, that's about (19x14+48)x0.125 = 39.25 kwh, and 39.25x$0.135 = $5.30 so far in electricity.

Of course, the sun is providing the real growing light. The CFLs are just keeping the plants in veg mode during the night. In any case, it will be interesting to keep track of the cost of the electricity and other consumables to find the cost per gram of my yield. Should be way cheaper than retail. :smokin:

[StoneMeadow]

Eek...they stink! :thumbsup:

Imagine my surprise while I was out fondling my girls (the plants silly! ) a few minutes ago and discovered my fingers stunk o' skunk. Since I have never handled uncured weed before, it came as a surprise. I was so shocked I had to go get my wife to come and check it out. Her verdict? They smell better than tomato plants. :smokin: