Violating Patient Rights

[SoCoMMJ]

[Continued from the derailed "Poll" thread]

Discussion regarding the notion that patient rights are being violated by the DOR cameras and possible database system.
=================================

After driving to Denver to attend the MMBA meeting tonight, there is continued information that the DOR is not interested in violating patient rights. "They don't even want to see patient information" was clearly stated more than once.

The statement made by Dan Hartman[Head of MED] regarding cameras was that the only DOR monitored camera would be the one overseeing the security room. No camera recordings of card and patient transactional data, and no remotely accessed dispensary sales area feeds.

However, there were rules regarding cameras in production areas, grow areas, and all restricted access areas. The cameras are primarily to monitor grows and processing. They want to make sure pounds are not sneaking out the back door.

I guess we'll have to wait until at least mid March when the DOR proposed rules are signed off on by the state to see what the real story is.

Much of the information that is stirring up patients lately comes from CTI. They tend to blow everything out of proportion for whatever reason.

Of all the dispensary speakers tonight, I can't recall a single one endorsing the violation of patient rights, or even desiring camera monitoring.

So, we are at the point now of, show me some factual information on how the patient rights are being violated. I'll be the devil's advocate since all dispensaries are the devil anyways. Include links and quotes please...

Again, I'm not endorsing anybody's rights being violated. MMC's technically have no rights once they submitted their application and $10k fee, so that's not a worry. But if patient rights are being violated, let's get it on the table.

As a side note, the DOR did note the recent lack of commenting by patients at hearings and through email. If you don't tell them, the won't listen. If you do tell them, they might.

SoCoMMJ Reviewed by SoCoMMJ on 02-18-2011. Violating Patient Rights Discussion regarding the notion that patient rights are being violated by the DOR cameras and possible database system. ================================= After driving to Denver to attend the MMBA meeting tonight, there is continued information that the DOR is not interested in violating patient rights. "They don't even want to see patient information" was clearly stated more than once. The statement made by Dan Hartman regarding cameras was that the only DOR monitored camera would be Rating: 5

[GratefulMeds]

The problem is what are the rules? is anyone out there really clear on these? When they had two days of public comment and we didn't have enough folks show to even keep comments going until noon, that really hurt. Of course we dont have the local media whipping up reefer madness stories on a weekly basis anymore. So many patients, caregivers and even center owners seem to think things are just fine. Colorado you were a leader in the movement for sensible drug laws, now you have gone back to your reefer madness thinking, (Banning all edibles, blood testing drivers, etc). In Nederland we were up 52% during the worst recession since the great depression with very little and some say no adverse changes to the character of the town. But the DOR and Legislature are still drunk on the fees they extorted from centers and have not noticed they have killed the sales tax money they had coming in. AS I told the town of Nederland the party is over! you might as well start firing the extra police and town workers you hired because the funds that were badly needed we got from MMJ and the people it brought to town that helped all business up here. The State has put a end to it, how you ask. they expect centers in a town of 1400 people to pay the same overhead as a center in Denver. That is what is messed up about most things in the State the legislature treats the whole State as if it were Denver.

[Colodonmed]

SOCOMMJ, wtf? Do you think that we patients cannot read? I do not rely on CTI for my information, they do put out some good info at times though. I read the proposed law and I clearly see a violation of my privacy in it. Period. They want cameras to monitor everything and that as I said before is clearly unnaceptable from my stand point. The statement by the head of MED is just that ..a statement. Have them remove the language from the proposal and then it may mean something. As previously stated, I don't feel that you SOCOMMJ are behind this violation of patient privacy, I hope I am right. But it is very obvious that there are big money players behind this regulation and again I say, they don't want players like you and the mom and pops that WERE doing a great job to succeed. They want it all my friend, and I know the $10k fees you paid are steep, but that was your risk when you decided to throw your hat in the ring. I hope you win, but I will say again and I believe it to be the truth man, If the privacy issue is not addressed and patients are not protected from their transactions being recorded like an undercover drug sting, then I feel you and so many others that are trying to do the right thing and move MMJ forward are going to be dissappointed. It's not about the centers man, it is about PATIENT PRIVACY! I hope you keep fighting for ALL OF US!!

[HighPopalorum]

Mark,

You know this thread is ostensibly about patients rights? If you want to complain about high state license fees, falling revenue, there are appropriate places to do so. Like a bunch of other commercial growers, you seem to consider anything that hurts your profits a violation of "patients rights."

Here's what I would consider a violation of my rights. You'll note that the profitability of your business has nothing to do with any of them:

-discrimination based on age, race, religion or national origin
-dissemination of private medical or financial data without permission (HPAA)
-endangerment of my life or health by unsafe or contaminated services and products
-dishonest or misleading advertising or labeling
-lack of redress for contaminated or unsatisfactory product

More or less, I think patients should enjoy the same protections at dispensaries as they do at other similar businesses.

[Colodonmed]

So, we are at the point now of, show me some factual information on how the patient rights are being violated. I'll be the devil's advocate since all dispensaries are the devil anyways. Include links and quotes please...

This is directly from the proposed DOR MMED regulations from their website this morning, and these are my concerns contained in the proposed rules that diminish my rights as a patient;

j. A date/time must be embedded on all recordings of customer areas. The date and time must be synchronized and set correctly and must not significantly obscure the picture.
5. PLACEMENT OF CAMERAS/REQUIRED COVERAGE.
b. All limited access areas, point of sale areas, security rooms/areas and all points of ingress/egress to limited access areas and all points of ingress/egress to the exterior of the licensed premises must have fixed camera coverage capable of identifying any activity occurring within a minimum of twenty (20) feet of all entry and exit points. c. A single fixed camera shall be placed above each point of sale location, allowing for the clear and certain identification of the transacting individual and related identification. A single fixed camera shall be placed above each point of sale location, allowing for the recording and recognition of any transacting individualâ??s identification and any medical marijuana removed from the premises. This will be accomplished by temporarily placing the authorized identification, and registry card in a 12â?� x 12â?� area on the counter top, where they will be captured from the above mounted camera. In addition, all medical marijuana shall be placed on an Department of Agriculture approved and calibrated weight scale so that the amount removed from the licensed premises may by captured from the above mounted camera. As an alternative, a licensed center may, through their point of sale system, simultaneously capture fixed images of the transaction and the individual making the purchase. For all transactions, time, date, amount and weight of purchase, and identifying registry number shall be captured with the transaction and overlaid on the point of sale transaction or text overlay on the video transaction.
d. All entrances and exits to the facility shall be recorded from both indoor and outdoor vantage points, and capable of clearly identifying the individual entering or exiting the facility.
e. The system shall be capable of clearly identifying any activities occurring within the facility or within the grow rooms in low light conditions.
6. OTHER STANDARDS.
a. All camera views of customer areas must be continuously recorded 24 hours a day. The use of motion detection is authorized with a minimum of ten (10) second pre and post- event recording.
b. Complete index and guide to the center cameras, technical documentation, monitors and controls must be available in the surveillance room. This guide must include a map of the camera locations, direction of coverage, camera numbers and operating instructions for the surveillance equipment.
c. A chronological point of sale transaction log must be made available to be used in conjunction with recorded video of those transactions.
d. All surveillance recordings must be kept for a minimum of 20 days on your recording device (DVD, NVR) AND an additional consecutive 20 days must be kept on a cd or external hard-drive.
h. Surveillance recordings and clear still photos must be made available to the MMED and law enforcement personnel upon request.
7. DIGITAL VIDEO RECORDING AND MANAGEMENT.
e. The video recording shall allow for the exporting of still images in an industry standard image format (.jpg, bmp, gif, etc.)
f. Recordings must have the ability to be archived to DVD-R, CD-R, Blue Ray or USB Drive as required by the MMED.
g. Exported video must have the ability to be archived in a proprietary format that ensures authentication of the video and guarantees that no alteration of the recorded image has taken place.
i. Exported video must also have the ability to be saved in an industry standard file format that can be played on a standard PC using either Apple QuickTime or Windows Media Player.


10. REMOTE VIDEO MONITORING AND RETRIEVAL.
a. The DVR or NVR system shall be capable of providing remote viewing via the internet of both live and recorded video.
b. DVR or NVR systems shall be approved by the MMED.
c. DVR or NVR must allow for remote connection and control over all cameras.
MMED Proposed Rules 01/27/11 55
d. Internet Connectivity must allow for at least 384k upstream.
e. Static IP address and port or a web based application with a user name and password control is required to allow for remote connection to the DVR/NVR(s).
11. POINT OF SALE INTERGRATION/OVERLAY.
a. Systems not utilizing Point of Sale (POS) photo capture shall be capable of overlaying the video with data from on premise point of sale systems.
b. The overlay data shall allow for manual verification of the transaction with the associated video.
.
The MMED must have full control capability over camera operation over all other remote access service equipment located outside of the surveillance room. MMED

[canaguy27]

As a side note, the DOR did note the recent lack of commenting by patients at hearings and through email. If you don't tell them, the won't listen. If you do tell them, they might.

You don't seem to get it. Patients are fed up with what is happening and are going back to caregivers and the protection of am20. They are running from MMCs in droves.

[copobo]

yup, and now mmc-s have built out all this overhead, and ramped up production, and have a ton of stock. its the black market that is ramping up, not the caregivers.

[GratefulMeds]

Mark,

You know this thread is ostensibly about patients rights? If you want to complain about high state license fees, falling revenue, there are appropriate places to do so. Like a bunch of other commercial growers, you seem to consider anything that hurts your profits a violation of "patients rights."

Here's what I would consider a violation of my rights. You'll note that the profitability of your business has nothing to do with any of them:

-discrimination based on age, race, religion or national origin
-dissemination of private medical or financial data without permission (HPAA)
-endangerment of my life or health by unsafe or contaminated services and products
-dishonest or misleading advertising or labeling
-lack of redress for contaminated or unsatisfactory product

More or less, I think patients should enjoy the same protections at dispensaries as they do at other similar businesses.

You address me by name Mark and thats cool because I dont want to hide, although I have no clue who you are but the fact that you seem to throw in a jab at me whenever you can. I have been about patient rights long before I had a dispensary long before I was forced out by the government and still stood up for them as a private citizen and patient at the judiciary committee last Thursday, did you testify pop? I would really like to hear your concerns in person with you taking the time to address the committees in person, instead of from behind I keyboard. Also in my post I did not say a thing about fees that was the other guy, but never miss a chance to go after me, right!
I think it is well documented that I have been for the patients and caregivers from the beginning, name one other dispensary owner that paid out over a million dollars to it's local towns folks for growing bud (if you want testing results we have them, from your buds at full spectrum) come up and look, along with the hundreds of thousands in sales tax revenue we collected for the State and town.
Not to mention I have a stake in this as a Patient who has metal and 8 screws in his neck from a broken neck and 3 herniated disks from degenerative disc disease. So dont judge a persons pain based on appearance. I it all ties in my friend they screw the centers and took their rights, now they are screwing over those who are caregivers, you don't think their coming after the patients rights next?

Boy that certainly a laundry list of concerns you have 4, all based on what you want. In 10,000 years no one has gotten sick from Cannabis except when Nixon was spraying poison on it in the early 70's knowing it was going to be consumed in the US, and that was our President poisoning his own people. I would worry more about the your buddies in the Government then pot growers.:jointsmile:

[rudy2010]

Those are clearly rights violating rules. I bet you can get oxycontin (sp?) at a drug store with far less scrutiny. Reefer Madness in the extreme.

The only reason go to the clubs any more is for clones. I get em, I split em then grow em. No other use for the clubs. I spend most of my money investing in bags of soil and gas (4 1/2 hours each way) to produce my own stash. I make my own medibles and bubble hash.

SoCo did you stand up in the meeting and say why are the restrictions for pot so much worse than for prescription drugs? Why are medical marijuana patients discriminated against by the state and police agencies? Why aren't police agencies protecting peoples stash and grows like the private possessions of any of the other citizens of the state?

If not maybe next time you could.

[GratefulMeds]

Mark,

You know this thread is ostensibly about patients rights? If you want to complain about high state license fees, falling revenue, there are appropriate places to do so. Like a bunch of other commercial growers, you seem to consider anything that hurts your profits a violation of "patients rights."

Here's what I would consider a violation of my rights. You'll note that the profitability of your business has nothing to do with any of them:

-discrimination based on age, race, religion or national origin
-dissemination of private medical or financial data without permission (HPAA)
-endangerment of my life or health by unsafe or contaminated services and products
-dishonest or misleading advertising or labeling
-lack of redress for contaminated or unsatisfactory product

More or less, I think patients should enjoy the same protections at dispensaries as they do at other similar businesses.

one more thing High on Pop
this has hurt patients I have patients every week that email me asking for specific strains that seemed to be the only ones that worked for their condition, When we had all the top experienced growers in town allowed to help us we were able to offer those strains that some took 3 weeks longer to flower then most strains. And they would drive from all over one man in Durango comes to mine. we are unable to do it for him because of the 70/30 thing and no other dispensary in the State grows that strain for an affordable price. the best thing I could do for him was give him a mom and I did and wished him luck since he didn't have a green thumb but I am hoping a friend of his there can help. So don't tell me I dont care about patients, or this thread is somehow reserved for you. If you had ever came up to the Center (before I was thrown to the wolves) you would know that. have a Grate Day!@?