what happened at the meeting today?

[Colodonmed]

Couple things. First, you're not held hostage by an MMC, you can visit whoever you want. You may not get the caregiver benefits from the new place, but it is what it is. It's going to encourage people to be more judicious in who they select as their center/caregiver, which is a good thing.

Maybe it would have been better if 1284 had allowed for centers to pay a fee based on plant counts versus patient numbers, that way centers know what they can grow period, every day they would know, then when they decide they can afford to get bigger, buy the higher count license and move up, then the patients would be free to shop wherever the best deals are, kinda like every other business out in the world. I just do not get the whole picture on this patient count deal, aren't your patient numbers constantly changing?

Second, I don't think that this system is designed to go "Wow, John Doe bought an eighth on Monday and then ANOTHER on Friday!" They don't have time to do that. I think they're looking for people who are buying their maximum two ounces from multiple shops, changing their primary caregiver/center all the time, etc. There has to be some safeguard against those kinds of abuses.

Whatever the sytem is " designed " to do, that information they are planning on collecting is a violation of my privacy. What the system is " designed " for today, may totally change tomorrow.

Lastly, who do you think is going to release this information? There are steep penalties, not to mention the law suit you'd be able to file. I keep hearing people talk about this list as if it's going to be published in this Sunday's Denver Post. It's all still held confidentially. I'd jump for joy if the state leaked anything related to status as a patient, same for my lawyer.

There have been stiff penalties since the beginning of time, but they are not always a deterrent. A quick remimder of confidential data bases - wikileaks

[copobo]

before long, they will make it legal to check the DB to do spot home checks, and they'll check it fishing for busts. They'll use it to take your drivers license, health or auto insurance, or job away.

you are a damn fool if you think otherwise.

[TheReleafCenter]

That's what I mean by the lobbying statement. Without a patient count, how could a center survive, and I for one am not planning on having every transaction I am involved with recorded and stored for any reason whatsoever, no way man!

Aren't most transactions at MMC's recorded and stored? Hell, it's a requirement in Denver. Any place that does patient rewards or has POS software probably has an inventory tracker. I think a lot of this is status quo.

And aren't you much more concerned that MMC's can change hands and the new owner now has your paperwork, maybe your purchasing history, your ID, and the last four digits of your social security number? That anyone who breaks in could get that information? Or anyone who hacks their computer?

Conversely, an leo is the first person I want to have my information. I'm a patient, you're not ticketing me, go away. I thought we were fighting for 24/7 access so we didn't have to worry about the registry not being open?

I'm not concerned with a DoR employee having that info either because they can't do anything with it. I'm also one of 100,000+ patients in Colorado, I'm not that important to them. I also seriously doubt I'd be flagged in their system and it's legitimately in place to catch people trying to abuse the program. And I do believe they'll take every precaution to limit the number of employees that work in that capacity and keep things completely confidential.

And as far as "federal prosecution", I don't buy the premise. It's kind of an all or nothing proposition: they're going to go after hundreds of thousands of patients across the county or they're going to selectively prosecute people. Amendment 20 doesn't even allow you to be in violation of federal law unless you're very seriously ill. None of this happens, though, until they shut down all the centers and ipm's and litigate that, which is the most likely scenario if there was a dramatic shift in the federal perception of medical marijuana.

I get that it would be nice if the registry could handle all of this, but I think that the DoR will be better funded and hence do a better job executing it. This also paves the way for the system to be funded entirely by MMC's and IPM's, possibly leading to a decrease in the state application fee. That's a legitimate argument here.

For the record, we have never donated a red cent to COMMR. I do think that Betty has really turned things around there and would encourage you to talk to her about your concerns with her organization. We do support CTI (although our check is late, sorry!) but just don't agree this time.

I'd really like some discussion here, because I feel like I might be completely missing the point.

EDIT: Or I'm a damn fool. :jointsmile:

[copobo]

I signed up for a confidential registry. this smacks of anything but.

there should be someone at the DOH 24x7 to take calls from leo when they are in the presence of a patient, with their card number.

This is going more and more they way the overly paranoid have been suggesting all along.

This SAME KIND of information could NEVER be shared this way, for anything but MMJ.

seriously - I am worried about the next step. The step where the DB will become part of BG checks and insurance records.

It's going there Releaf. It really is.

The only opt out now is patient grows - tens of thousands more of them.

[TheReleafCenter]

Okay, I don't want to come off argumentative, but I really want to break some of that down.

When you say that this program doesn't sound confidential, in what capacity are we talking? The proposals I've heard are vague. I also bet that because it's become such a hot topic now they'll err on the side of over-protecting info. We'd both agree that leaks of information are not in the departments best interest?

I didn't really think about the insurance factor. I guess I don't forsee them doing that, it would be massively unpopular. I also think that there's a big difference between another government agency having access vs a private company.

Patient grows seem like the worst thing to do if you're worried about federal prosecution of MMJ, right? I believe each plant federally is equal to 100 grams.

[copobo]

When you say that this program doesn't sound confidential, in what capacity are we talking? The proposals I've heard are vague. I also bet that because it's become such a hot topic now they'll err on the side of over-protecting info. We'd both agree that leaks of information are not in the departments best interest?

The DOR should not have my confidential medical info. When the mmj mission crosses with other missions (like Dr. regulation) we have a big problem!

I didn't really think about the insurance factor. I guess I don't forsee them doing that, it would be massively unpopular. I also think that there's a big difference between another government agency having access vs a private company.

doesn't it bother you that this is contrary to our Constitution?

Patient grows seem like the worst thing to do if you're worried about federal prosecution of MMJ, right? I believe each plant federally is equal to 100 grams.

nah, a 6 plant grow can be done cheap without crazy ventilation and cooling, etc, and there will always be bigger fish. The more patient growers there are, the safer all will be. Patient growers won't get their picture taken, the quantity they consume recorded, nor will they be tracked. Someone can't fuck up, and the rules can't change such that their shit is on record in a way that could come to haunt them later.

this is bad bad bad bad.

[MtnLionCO]

Aren't most transactions at MMC's recorded and stored? Hell, it's a requirement in Denver. Any place that does patient rewards or has POS software probably has an inventory tracker. I think a lot of this is status quo.

And aren't you much more concerned that MMC's can change hands and the new owner now has your paperwork, maybe your purchasing history, your ID, and the last four digits of your social security number? That anyone who breaks in could get that information? Or anyone who hacks their computer?

Conversely, an leo is the first person I want to have my information. I'm a patient, you're not ticketing me, go away. I thought we were fighting for 24/7 access so we didn't have to worry about the registry not being open?

I'm not concerned with a DoR employee having that info either because they can't do anything with it. I'm also one of 100,000+ patients in Colorado, I'm not that important to them. I also seriously doubt I'd be flagged in their system and it's legitimately in place to catch people trying to abuse the program. And I do believe they'll take every precaution to limit the number of employees that work in that capacity and keep things completely confidential.

And as far as "federal prosecution", I don't buy the premise. It's kind of an all or nothing proposition: they're going to go after hundreds of thousands of patients across the county or they're going to selectively prosecute people. Amendment 20 doesn't even allow you to be in violation of federal law unless you're very seriously ill. None of this happens, though, until they shut down all the centers and ipm's and litigate that, which is the most likely scenario if there was a dramatic shift in the federal perception of medical marijuana.

I get that it would be nice if the registry could handle all of this, but I think that the DoR will be better funded and hence do a better job executing it. This also paves the way for the system to be funded entirely by MMC's and IPM's, possibly leading to a decrease in the state application fee. That's a legitimate argument here.

For the record, we have never donated a red cent to COMMR. I do think that Betty has really turned things around there and would encourage you to talk to her about your concerns with her organization. We do support CTI (although our check is late, sorry!) but just don't agree this time.

I'd really like some discussion here, because I feel like I might be completely missing the point.

EDIT: Or I'm a damn fool. :jointsmile:

How anybody could watch FERN'S presentation and think these rules are a good idea is BEYOND ME!!!

[HighPopalorum]

More nutty paranoid predictions. What you're predicting is not gonna happen, folks.... just like all the other apocalyptic proclamations that are spewed all over the internet every time regulations change.

[TheReleafCenter]

The DOR should not have my confidential medical info. When the mmj mission crosses with other missions (like Dr. regulation) we have a big problem!

What's uniquely bad about the DoR? I don't see how anything gets leaked, exposed, whatever. Especially in light of the discussion that a lot of people are having about this.

doesn't it bother you that this is contrary to our Constitution?

I guess I just can't look at it as untouchable. Or perfect as it stands. I don't see what they're doing as any more unreasonable than telling people they can't yell fire in a movie theatre. If I want to be able to walk into a store and buy cannabis, I expect it won't be without some kind of oversight. What's the smarter play here? How do we stop people from buying a P a day of super cheap ounces from centers and flipping it on the street?

nah, a 6 plant grow can be done cheap without crazy ventilation and cooling, etc, and there will always be bigger fish. The more patient growers there are, the safer all will be. Patient growers won't get their picture taken, the quantity they consume recorded, nor will they be tracked. Someone can't fuck up, and the rules can't change such that their shit is on record in a way that could come to haunt them later.

this is bad bad bad bad.

If there will always be bigger fish, doesn't it stand to reason that the centers will ALWAYS be that bigger fish? I mean, IPM's plant counts aren't tied to patient numbers... they can grow four billion plants under state law.

[TheReleafCenter]

More nutty paranoid predictions. What you're predicting is not gonna happen, folks.... just like all the other apocalyptic proclamations that are spewed all over the internet every time regulations change.

I don't think anyone's a nutjob, just that most of the news is so heavily spun nowadays it's easy to take arguments on face. The COMMR hate baffles me; they've completely redone their organizational structure and have someone competent and compassionate at the helm. Admittedly, I haven't done too much investigating because A) we don't donate to them and B) I'm waiting to see that change manifest itself through some specific initiatives.

I'd love to see a group with a track record of successful lobbying do something that helps the community when everyone reconvenes in January. Seems like those are the last people you should be throwing mud at.