HPS vs. Induction + CFL flowering comparison

[vanduction]

I am not going to hijack this thread having an argument with you about this.

Thank you.

I encourage all posts which discuss the practical aspects of this & similar future experiments.

[bubbas]

Hi Vanduction,
I just turned on to your grow. There is a serious problem with your induction set up that may explain why they are not performing up to par.
You need to have your fan higher than your bulb these lights need a certain amount of heat to keep at full output. Any cooling of the bulb will cause the bulb to loose up to 50% of brightness after about a hour of operation. We have a lot of experience with these lights and this is one of the most common problems growers do with these bulbs. We only sell these set ups with reflectors only we don't sell just the bulb and ballast for this reason. Our reflector design is important too in keeping the bulb at the right temperature. You replied to me in another thread and told me you live in my area. Please give me a call and i can help you with your set up.

[vanduction]

Bubbas what temperature do you think would be best for generic chinese induction lamps?

Right now the temperature probes are inside the heating thermostat, but out of curiosity I will put them on top of the shades and see what they register.

[Indagrojeff]

Bubbas what temperature do you think would be best for generic chinese induction lamps?

Right now the temperature probes are inside the heating thermostat, but out of curiosity I will put them on top of the shades and see what they register.

Aside from the differences in manufacturing of these fixtures, drivers, couplings and lamps, and they are substantial, I'll address the general operational values of induction EFDL systems, not the self ballasted, screw in style internal electrode styles of induction;

higher wattage, 250+, induction lamps are used inside freezers because they can operate in ambient conditions as low as 40 Deg F (-40 Deg C). While the lower wattages need to be a minimum starting temperature of -13 Deg F/ -25 Deg C. The temperatures in the grow environment do not impact lumen output. I completely agree with the relector point for a different reason in that that the reflector design is extremely important to overall lumen distribution and qty of photons measured at the canopy.

For your future reference, but not likely to be seen in these environments, would be the maximum temperature ranges for the Driver housing temperature should never exceed 149 Deg. F (65 Deg C). Thus to maximize system life, ambient temperature of the driver should be kept as low as possible.

Lamp: temperature of the lamp mounting base of the induction core should never exceed 212 Deg F (100 Deg C). Amalgam tip: temperature must be within the range of 131 Deg F to 257 Deg F 9 (55 Deg C to 125 Deg C) for optimal light output.

On the lower wattage screw in style internal electrode induction lamps most of the failures with these lamps we see from base up installation of the lamps mounted inside a reflector that traps the heat inside the base driver.

On the higher wattage EFDL it's usually fixture design, lack of heat sinks and the fixture having an IP65 rating which is designed for outdoor applications, such as tunnels, where any surface heat is quickly evacuated from the surface of the fixture. In a grow room the glass is trapping the heat and lamp/driver failure with the hours these fixtures are running do not allow for adequate ventilation and inevitably result in premature failure.

Best of luck on this grow and I hope this information helps.

[khyberkitsune]

Thank you.

I encourage all posts which discuss the practical aspects of this & similar future experiments.

I'm about two years ahead of you, just to give you a time frame of reference as a courtesy.

Want to know the specific 6 wavelengths Cannabis responds to? I've already promised to not make the light for myself and give out the info, so do what you want.

Here are the minimum specs:

30% blue +/-5% in either direction for 460 or 420nm blue, plus 35% +/-5% for 660nm red and 630nm red.

I cannot give you the UV and IR specs that provide super-growth, because it's not for cannabis, it's for fruiting plants like tomatoes and peppers, and cannabis fails under the same type of light.

Cannabis does better under higher amounts of blue, up to 40% blue (wavelength is indeterminate for now,) for flowering power/bud density. This is according to a personal e-mail from someone on this site. I will not expose them, I'll let them expose themselves when I send them the proper equipment to test against my own to make it a fair test. John Lydon has made good note that 290nm increases bud potency in his earlier tests in the later 80s for his Ph.D.

We can only test this stuff for now, but I am sure (with my own sales of personally-grown overstock to dispensaries on a single-blind test versus their stuff on the spot,) that my stuff has topped theirs by far. They offered too much for an ounce of my stuff - I only paid a total of $25 per ounce to produce, they wanted to pay $200.

I refused and gave it at $100/oz. I am not greedy, I pay my taxes, and I don't go for the gold.

Granted this will not apply to every strain. This was fine-tuned but it should yield in a similar manner, within 20% yield weight depending upon how thick you let your plants get.

Remember the YouTube video - 90w LED was = 400w HPS in veg, but not bloom. You need at least half the HID power in LED to match.

[vanduction]

I am requesting input from the readers of this thread:

Bubba believes the performance of my induction lamp would be improved if the shade were enclosed on all 4 sides, trapping heat and keeping it warmer.

I have my opinion, but would like to hear what others think: Should I make this change for the final 3-4 weeks of flowering?

[bubbas]

I am requesting input from the readers of this thread:

Bubba believes the performance of my induction lamp would be improved if the shade were enclosed on all 4 sides, trapping heat and keeping it warmer.

I have my opinion, but would like to hear what others think: Should I make this change for the final 3-4 weeks of flowering?

If you don't believe me get yourself a light meter either Lux or quantum and measure output after start up and warm up and wait a couple hours and measure again or better yet have your fan come on and take a measurment then turn off your fan and take a reading and watch it climb. We notice in our 400 watt the ouput dropped from 39000 lux to a mere 13000 after a cou[le hours. but don't take my word for it test it yourself.

[vanduction]

There is only 10 days left until harvest so I decided to leave the lamp unchanged for the rest of this particular test. If this lamp is used again, it will (among other potential changes) have the shade enclosed to trap heat.

Both sides are still unimpressive, but the HPS still has the lead. Also you can see the leaves on the HPS are yellowing/dying a lot more than on the induction. Don't know what to make of that yet.

HPS:


Induction:

[khyberkitsune]

There is only 10 days left until harvest so I decided to leave the lamp unchanged for the rest of this particular test. If this lamp is used again, it will (among other potential changes) have the shade enclosed to trap heat.

Both sides are still unimpressive, but the HPS still has the lead. Also you can see the leaves on the HPS are yellowing/dying a lot more than on the induction. Don't know what to make of that yet.

HPS:


Induction:

The yellowing is due to the HPS providing more PPFD than the induction lamp, the plant is using more nutrients as it receives higher energy amounts.

As far as the increasing of efficiency - induction lamps don't work like regular fluorescents that use electrodes. Electrode-based lamps run more efficient the hotter they get. Induction requires it to be cooler, and you need to direct as much of the EMF as possible directly into the tube.

If you want to increase the efficiency, you'll need to build a better waveguide in the tube and build a better diamagnetic shield around the entire enclosure to keep that EMF focused in the tube area for higher output.

[emilya]

( diamagnetic shield )

lol... I need a bong hit after that one!