For the Ebb&Gro population .........

[tinytoon]

I have noticed that allot of peeps are using this type of system to grow and thought maybe I would share a thought of mine. From all the comments and such I have read about this setup it seems the biggest gripe is that the last bucket can end up with stale water. If fact I believe it was Daddy that pointed this out and I think he was the one that mentioned turning it into a drip system. So far here is what I have done.
PH at res 5.7 PH at bucket 6.5 ....... not good
It has always been said that the bucket and controller must be at the same height (myself included), this my friends is very false. If the controller is higher than the buckets then you will have a mess in the room but if the buckets are higher than the controller then you will have that much less water in the buckets. Here is the simple version. Started my setup this run with 15 buckets all at same height as controller but I did put a 2" piece of 3" pvc in between bucket and liner to keep roots from sitting in water. When the buckets were empty, (drain cycle) I place a piece of a 2x4 under the bucket to raise the whole thing off the floor and end up being aprox 1 1/2" higher than the controller. Doing this means I get about 1 1/2" less water in the buckets but more drains back to controller because of height diff. With 15 buckets I ended up with about 3 gal more that drained out compared to all at same height. As long as this is done when buckets are empty, if done when full you might want to have the mop bucket next to the controller. Just dumped res yesterday and will check PH at buckets tonight and let you all know if I'm going dwon the right road or not. :jointsmile:

tinytoon Reviewed by tinytoon on 11-01-2010. For the Ebb&Gro population ......... I have noticed that allot of peeps are using this type of system to grow and thought maybe I would share a thought of mine. From all the comments and such I have read about this setup it seems the biggest gripe is that the last bucket can end up with stale water. If fact I believe it was Daddy that pointed this out and I think he was the one that mentioned turning it into a drip system. So far here is what I have done. PH at res 5.7 PH at bucket 6.5 ....... not good It has always been Rating: 5

[keylime]

I've been running my ebb and grow system for about a year right now, and I am ready to replace it. My reason is that its just too complicated and too many things can go wrong.
My system runs 25 3 gal buckets.

Here's what I've had problems with.
1. the control bucket has 3 float valves, 2 of them have already malfunctioned. I've had to buy a new control bucket because I didn't have time to wait for a $10 float valve, but the result was a flooded grow room. I've also had a water pump give up, it has two of those, when one malfunctions, there is not much time to waste. About a week ago, I had just replanted a batch into the flowering room. I'm always worried the first night or two to make sure nothing goes wrong. In the evening before I went to sleep I checked on them and everything looked good. The next morning they were almost dead. One pump quit working, and the plants being in hydroton, dry up a lot faster than most other types of media.
I also had some plants dying one day, and finally figured out that the main tube feeding the row of buckets had a kink in it. I think I must have moved it while tending some other plants.
So basically I think there are too many parts that have to work together, and I am going over to a simpler system, where the plants are not as dependent on mechanical failures.
I think I'm going to use the buckets and remove the lines, and fill them with a combination of coco coir and perlite, and do a top feed once or twice a day (drain to waste). It will depend on a timer and a pump. If one of those malfunctioned, it would be much more forgiving than E&G.

keylime

[keylime]

Oh, and I forgot to mention....

I've had a bunch of buckets not filling up and had a very difficult time figuring out what is going on. At the end of that crop, I took all the lines apart where the buckets interconnect, and found roots had gotten in there and plugged the lines, therefore nutrients could not reach the buckets behing the plugged line.

Its a great system when it works properly, but there are too many things that can and will go wrong. I am often out of town for two or three days, and that can spell disaster for my girls.

keylime

[tinytoon]

Well I'm sorry to hear you have had so many issuses with your system but remember one thing, no matter what type of system you have there is always the variables to think about. Pumps will fail, lines will clog, bulbs will blow, power goes out and so on. None of those have anything to do with the system itself but we all face it everyday. Just need to pray to the ganja gods more often :jointsmile:

[scottcc5s]

Well I'm sorry to hear you have had so many issuses with your system but remember one thing, no matter what type of system you have there is always the variables to think about. Pumps will fail, lines will clog, bulbs will blow, power goes out and so on. None of those have anything to do with the system itself but we all face it everyday. Just need to pray to the ganja gods more often :jointsmile:

Tiny: I have the same system you have and Keylime brings up some interesting issues. Have you every had any issues with your system with "floats" and "pumps" going bad?? Knock on wood, so far so good but just wondering about those two issues.

[keylime]

Ok, lets compare ebb and grow to a flood and drain system.

They have in common, one water pump and one timer.

Here's a list of the extras the Ebb and Grow has

It uses two water pumps, so:

1. it has an extra water pump
2, it has 2 float valves
3. It has a control board that runs the float valves.

Just those "extras" are FOUR separate things that can go sour. If one of those malfunctions, and you're not in the room for 12 hrs, you could have a dead crop - at least cause a lot of stress on the girls.

It also means you are FOUR TIMES as likely to have a disaster compared to Ebb and Flow. The odds are too expensive, and it has cost me a lot of losses in yield several times, and I am tired of it.

keylime

[tinytoon]

I have not run into any of these problems as of yet but do plan on having spare parts available. Pump is no big deal, home dePOT or lowes in garden section. Floats would be a different story.
Strange thing is I started this thread to help people with a PH difference and it has now turned into scare the hell out of peeps who just started using it. Common sence tells you that shit happens no matter what type of system you run. Pumps fail, timers go up in smoke and mother nature just dropped a tree on your power lines and there is nothing you can do about it. That being said no matter how you are growing you should always make sure you have access to shit that can break. I have just begun using my system and so far have been happy with it. Again I say I'm sorry it didnt work for you but who knows maybe the ganja gods dont want you to grow that way /shrug

But back to what I was trying to discuss, tested ph in buckets several times and now they run within .2 of the controller box so I would have to say the experiment was a good learning curve for me.
Have a nice day and if all else fails read my sig! :thumbsup:

[jski9999]

Hey all! 1st things 1st.. Tiny, my hat's off to ya buddy. From dwc in a tent to ebb n gro in a custom room, you get it done with impressive results. I've learned much from your posts, thanks for your efforts.

Alright on to the subject. I have a perpetual grow running 3 ebb n grow systems, with 12-18 sites each, depending on the strain.

I'm not sure if you all are aware of this or not, so I thought better throw it out there.. c.a.p. changed the system sometime between late spring and early summer. The new system has a different bucket design that incorporates a 1 in lip in the bottom of the outer bucket. They then cut a channel in the bottom where the fitting attaches, making the fitting the lowest spot in the bucket.

The new control bucket seems identical to the old one dimension wise. The difference is the new system only uses 2 float switches instead of 3, and they moved the lower switch to the very bottom of the bucket. It's now so low, the pump had a hard time getting the water low enough to trip the switch. I just removed the suction cups off the bottom of the pump to get it low enough to actuate the switch properly. These changes reduced the standing water from 1.5-2" in the older style, down to under a 1/2 inch. I put a piece of osb under each bucket and woo-hoo, I have dry buckets!!!

I happen to have 2 new systems and 1 old. I bought new style buckets for the old system and am about 2 weeks from trying it. I'm not sure how much the difference between the switch locations is gonna effect the results. We'll see if it works out.

1 word of caution to those expanding their systems. The expansion kits that I've ordered since summer have been the new style. Not because I ordered them that way, but because that's what you get when you order a kit. And even though the fittings are at the lowest point of the bucket, they are still a half inch or so higher than the old style. This difference actually raises the water level in the older bucket by, well, a half inch or so. Further adding to the problem. At least it did in my setup..

To address the root issues, (which btw are inherent in many systems) we use nylon window screen between the inner and outer buckets. You can get it by the roll at most any home improvement store. Haven't had a problem since.

Alright, there's what I know. Now, this is what I think... Although this system is certainly not without it's problems, it still has a hell of a lot of bang for the buck. They are versatile, in my experience reliable, and produce very impressive results. It's all in the details. A grow is a constant work in progress. I've never had one yet that couldn't be improved. As a wise man once told me, "If you ain't improvin, you ain't growin!!!" HahaHaaa, I loved that old guy!!!

Keep up the great work folks. I'm back quiet... PEACE!

[tinytoon]

Jski ty for the DIY nylon screen trick, that will be used during the next grow :thumbsup:

[avon211]

Better yet!!!! Go to your local paint store and get paint strainer socks for five gallon bucket size. They are used for straining paint. They come in 2 sizes I believe its a 2 gal size and a 5 gallon size. They are the same shape as an ebb and Grow bucket. They are about a dollar a piece. Hope that helps. Hey tiny sometimes I kinda miss that freaked out avatar you had. Maybe ya outta bring him back once in a while.