how to stronger plants

[Rusty Trichome]

Assumptions can keep a person from learning proper technique. Don't assume anything, and seriously...do not pretend knowledge if there is none.

A plant's genes can be seen as a private diary of enviornment, stressors, and what that particular plant did to thrive and survive...but only successive generations can read that diary. A clone is not a successive generation plant. It's a carbon copy.

A clone can not alter it's 'diary' to fit unfamiliar circumstances unless it's been there and done that, or unless it can find a response that is similar in it's 'diary'. But it can and possibly will add to it's passed-on genetics, but this takes MANY MANY exposures to this enviornment, many successes and failures and MANY MANY generations to truly alter the plant's response in ANY direction, let alone a direction of YOUR chosing. Just try and un-hermie a hermie-prone strain and see how far you get. Or try and outbreed the autoflower from a autoflower x landrace cross...

Your clones are not 'learning' from it's experiences in your growroom. Were that the case, some of us would have perennial cannabis plants in our growrooms instead of annuals. Especially those of us that re-veg. Grow some out, and pollinate 'em, and that's your first step. The best you can hope to do is to nudge the plants in a particular direction through selective breeding. But there is a limit to this, too.

Clones and seeds need the genetic diversity to evolve and adapt. An overcloned plants metabolic age will eventually get too old and tired to properly grow. Remember...it's main job is to reproduce. Eventually their system will 'give-up'. The things that make you love the strain...will fade and mutate into hemp-quality garbage eventually. (a very slight exaggeration, but it's the best I can do with this headache)

I think you had better read-up more on PROPER growing/cloning and transplanting techniques, as you are setting yourself up for a BIG disappointment. Might not be this grow, might not be the next...but imporper techniques WILL catch up to you. Usually at the worst possible time.

Hit the 'ENTER' key after every few sentances, or just before you start a new thought. Even if you do it wrong, at least it's easier for everyone to read.

Rusty Trichome Reviewed by Rusty Trichome on 10-17-2010. how to stronger plants i dont know maybe i should have sarted a grow log but i dont have a camera.so iwanted to tell you guys what been going on with my grows.i have been growing ww from day one.i think this is the most important part what ever your growing start with one type.grow the plant in your conditions whatever that may be it doesnt matter.learn what stresses your plants but try to keep things as simple as possible.water only when the plants need it,feed only when they need it with very small amounts of Rating: 5

[darealbrain]

thank you thank you thank you

the reason i started this thread was to find out if this was possible.
the growing and cloning parts have been going pretty good too good for my skill level.

i just was wondering why as i havent changed anything?

you say that clones of clones get weaker as they age but yet they are carbon copies?

arent there some clone only strains?

i dont know i admit im a baby compared to all of you and this really got me stumped the reason its in the plant problem section.

my clones are growing too good help lol

[darealbrain]

so how long can you keep a mother plant before it stops putting on branches that will later turn to bud sites?

if i came off like i had any knowledge at all im sorry.im just asking questions triing to learn something

[Rusty Trichome]

Ever see a perennial plant after it's outlasted it's 'normal' lifespan? Same thing happens with cannabis clones. Although they are genetically perfect copies, they are still chronogically as "old" as the original clone-mother. Cannabis is an annual, not a perennial. With clones we are manipulating that aspect.

If I'm not mistaken, the "clone-only" strains are a simple phenotype of a certain cross. It's not that they won't reproduce, but the particular phenotype will be lost to it's own genetic diversity when pollinated. An experienced breeder knows what they did to get to that point, and knows how to continue getting there in the future. I think it's folly to put that extra effort into a plant that grows like a weed just fine, but I'm guessing the money makes it worth the effort. (unusual shit often costs more, for some reason)

For example...Let's say I cross pollinate a (sativa dominate) Potent Purple x Durban Poison, with an (indica dominate) Diesel x Master Kush. The first-generation seeds, when germinated, will show a minimum of 4 different phenotypes. (from the parents, and possibly from THEIR parents as well) And let's say that only one of those resultant plants has everything I want in a cannabis plant, but the rest of the phenotypes are quasi-garbage in comparison.

So lets re-cap...I now have 4 strains of differing quality, colors and growth habits but only one of 'em is worth saving and growing. How do I keep that trait alive, but keep the other three phenotypes out of my growroom? Since they came from the same parents, the genes are still expressed in different ways. Just like brothers and sisters of different ages, from the same parents. There will be differences between the kids, especially when they age.

For the weekend breeder, only two things could be done to keep the integrity of the desirable phenotype. For the average gardener, this means either self-pollinate, (femming) or clones. But every time you pollinate it to itself, it still has the 4 different sets of genetic imprintings which offer it's resultant seeds "genetic diversity".

I've re-vegged quite a few plants up-to 7 indoor growing seasons. But between the time I started the re-veg process, and the final set of clones...the strain has 'drifted' a tad. Sometimes more trichomes but tighter buds...sometimes less trichomes but stronger physical effect when smoked, (coughing) but a fluffier bud structure. Sometimes a different aroma, fewer trichomes, but a stronger "What were we talking about?" effect when smoked.

Are these "clone-only" strains any better than a seeded strain...? IMHO, nope. As a matter of fact, MY version of a perfect strain is likely different than YOUR version of a perfect strain. It's all in the marketing. I've smoked a few of the "clone-only" strains, and wasn't overly impressed. Certainy not impressed enough to change my growroom or techniques. Plus, I don't have room enough to keep one mother for years, if I want to grow any other strain. (which I do quite often)

Wasn't necessarily trying to target your knowledge-base with the comment, I was just pointing-out to you and the other members in here, that actual experience and knowledge prevents you from having to assume. Those that assume often take unnecessary risks looking for shortcuts that don't exist, or shortcuts that are actually harmful to the plants, genetics, saftey of the growroom...

[darealbrain]

so i went from happy to see roots to happy to see growth.when my growing improved in dealing with clones.

winning the lottery=millions
rusty telling me my skills getting better=priceless

i did all this work just to learn how to grow!lol
dont we all

[Slevinkal]

i did all this work just to learn how to grow!lol
dont we all

I spend too much time on here now trying to find out something new every day :thumbsup:

[canniwhatsis]

I was just pointing-out to you and the other members in here, that actual experience and knowledge prevents you from having to assume. Those that assume often take unnecessary risks looking for shortcuts that don't exist, or shortcuts that are actually harmful to the plants, genetics, saftey of the growroom...

M'kay.... so what's your feeling here?

Bonsai Mums: A Guide - Grasscity.com Forums


I've only been working this method for a few months,... with great success!


These plants fall into the "Overcloned" category, so even tho I'm cloning a mum that's never seen flowering cycle there's gonna be some kind of genetic drift?

[Rusty Trichome]

M'kay.... so what's your feeling here?

Regarding what? Although I don't usually link-hop, I'm familiar with the post, as it's been around almost as long as my post(s) regarding bonsai techniques and re-vegging. One of 'em is in my signature.

I've only been working this method for a few months,... with great success!

I've been doing it for a few years. Also, with great success. :thumbsup:

These plants fall into the "Overcloned" category, so even tho I'm cloning a mum that's never seen flowering cycle there's gonna be some kind of genetic drift?

Not necessarily genetic drift. More like old age and different reactions to different (or ongoing) enviornmental conditions. Like how the plant will use/process/store nutrients, how it deals with being consistently overfed or underfed, which micronutrients it's lacking or choking-on, drifting light spectrums from aging bulbs (or new bulbs versus old bulbs, or different manufacturers...) or power outages during lights-on...stuff like that.

Let's say you had two seeds of equal quality and stability, from the same mother, plucked at the same time. Plant one, and keep her as a mom for a couple of years. Then, plant the other seed, bring her to her preflower stage, and check the difference between the growth habits, the quality, density and quantity of trichomes, internode spacing, leaf structure/thickness/size, aroma's...and likely the plants will not look like sisters. Good or bad, the plants adapt to their enviornment.

I'm pretty sure the genetic drift occurs during the reproductive stage, when seeds are made. But the enviornment determines how the plant(s) will react in any given situation, and is not limited to one singular response.

[darealbrain]

Good or bad, the plants adapt to their enviornment.

now isnt that the same thing i been saiing.

yet their saiing it takes generations for a plant to do it.

once you take a clone or any plant away from its enviroment it starts triing to adapt.just like taking a plant from indoor to outdoor.if nothing else it has to adapt to the sun.it dont take years a few days maybe.

[darealbrain]

But the enviornment determines how the plant(s) will react in any given situation, and is not limited to one singular response.

so if im controlling the enviroment and the enviroment is controlling the plant.cant i make the plants grow the way i want?

and by me taking the healthiest clone each time, allowing them to be more stronger,and able to handle more stress.