Leaves curling and twisting

[skipperhva]

Hello all,
Iâ??ve been lurking around here for a while now, actually was a member years ago, can't seem to remember my name here.
I need some serious help. I am open to all possible answers; please respond with your thoughts.
I am on my 4th growthis time, about 50 or so in my life, and have been having a problem with most new growth shoots, weather in soil or hydro, and I am lost and canâ??t seem to fix it. Any new shoots, clone or from seed, seems to shrivel up. Sometimes it dosent happen until my plants grow a few feet, then it hits, and scews me all up.
Let me say that my water is hard, close to 275ppm from the tap, and over 400ppm from my well. It seems to have started as soon as I used the well water.
After a few weeks and seeing all the curling and twisting I switched back to the tap water. It hasent really helped. Even clones I have given away to friends seem to continue with this. My water pH range is always between 6.9 and 7.2.
I tried rain water ph corrected to just about 7 for my soil and about 5.8 to 6 in my hydro, however it does drift down low at times.
The condition seems worse with the rain water, so now Iâ??m mixing in about 1/3 tap.
My nutes are peters 20-20-20 in soil, and have tried most hydro nutes as directed sometimes a bit under or over depending on the stage. Mostly use BC, Botanicare and GH products, doesnâ??t seem to make a difference which brand I use. In the winter I thought it was getting too cold at night around 65 degrees, but my room has been a steady 75 to 80 for months now, and itâ??s getting bad affecting most of my plants.
It seems if I add calmag, it gets worse, and Epsom salts doesnâ??t seem to help, I thought it was mag deficient. In the winter it seems to subside after adding more peters to soil, but the hydro never got too bad. But is starting to affect everything now. Now I have a few strains, from NYC Diesel, White Skunk, G13, White widow, Sour Diesel, Chronic, Ice, and OG Kush, and maybe a few others. I am in danger of losing my strains. I have made so many changes like ph up or down, flush and water with 5 ppm rain water and dumping nute tanks to remove the calcium I thought was causing it. Iâ??m lost please help. I am going to try to add some photos here.

skipperhva Reviewed by skipperhva on 08-11-2010. Leaves curling and twisting Hello all, Iâ??ve been lurking around here for a while now, actually was a member years ago, can't seem to remember my name here. I need some serious help. I am open to all possible answers; please respond with your thoughts. I am on my 4th growthis time, about 50 or so in my life, and have been having a problem with most new growth shoots, weather in soil or hydro, and I am lost and canâ??t seem to fix it. Any new shoots, clone or from seed, seems to shrivel up. Sometimes it dosent happen Rating: 5

[khyberkitsune]

check your airstone - that looks like oxygen starvation.

[skipperhva]

That could be on the little bubbler, but the larger ones are on a Botanicare systems with lots of flow, and air stones to boot. And one photo is in soil.
It seems to hit all of my plants, and indicas real bad, I almost lost all my OG in the winter. Had the worst time with that.
I try to pick good clones and after they start to show roots, it hits them too.

[khyberkitsune]

This really looks like oxygen deprivation, although some of it might be a lack of CO2 - judging by the wrinkling on the leaves, it also looks like they're trying to increase surface area for gas exchange. What are your temps looking like?

[skipperhva]

My temps have hit close to 85 at times this summer, but I am running 2 large fans across the tops, with a portable ac and 3 exhaust fans about 200cfm each.
3 weeks ago I added a 2.5 ton ac system with constant fan pulling the return from another area thats 1500 sq feet with 2 garage doors and loose walls. There's tons of fresh air comming in.
I set the stat around 76 and my 1000 watters HPS are a bit high for some. There mostly mothers. I havent gone 12/12 on anything since may. Just trying to keep them going at 18/6until the fall.
There are 2 rooms holding one at about 84 and the larger room at about 79 near the lights
Problem is I cant clone like this right now they wither away. I've tried so many fixes that many have stunted, and others have stopped growing.

[skipperhva]

Come on people, its been a few days, anyone have any ideas, I'm willing to try some more.
Can't seem to stop this twist thing, and it stunts the growth.

[khyberkitsune]

Oh, I had to re-read everything.

The 20-20-20 is out of balance for most anything but grass.

And with hard water, double ouch.

You should try to find a nutrient solution meant for hardwater. When using hardwater, avoid nutrients with magnesium and calcium.

And you might wish to reduce the amount of light for a short time period while you correct your nutrient issue.

[cigarettes42]

why dont you fill a trouble shooting form? i and cann.com hate reading through a bunch of jargon. if you dont your going to get a bunch of guesses

[skipperhva]

What is your experience level? ( experienced...)

What type of hydro set-up are you running? Aero with spray jets, 2 bubblers, and soil.
Your Equipment:
A) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)
Running them all, 400 to 1000 watts
B) Distance from tops? 14" to 2.5 feet
C) Reflector type? 1 bat wing 1000hps, 3 reflector hood 1000hps, and 3 high Bay style 400mh
D) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? several kinds sun masters and a few philips home depot MH's
E) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? lots of air 800 cfm in 1200 out
F) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? 3 exhaust 3 standing
G) Size of reservoir? from 10 to 27 gallon
H) What medium if applicable. MG moisture control soil, rockwool, Hydroton.
Your nutrients and water:
I) If using rockwoll for clones or seedlings, did you rinse the cubes well, with properly ph'd water? yes
J) Source of water. (tap or filtered) What's it's ph?, Tap mixed with rain, ph'ed to 7 for soil, left alone about 6.5 after mixing, adding to hydro, then ph'ed to 5.8 to 6.2
K) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.
Gh nutes, botanicare, pro grow, BC nutes from starter kit, and tried mg for soil, went back to peters 20-20-20
L) What is the ec/ppm of your unadjusted tap (or filtered) water? 150ppm
M) What is the ec/ppm of your nutrient solution? from about 1100 to 1700
N) What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? (reservoir high and low temps) 72 to 78 degrees
O) Does your ec/ppm show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? not much
P) Does the ph fluctuate? , usually falling, then change the water and nutes.
Q) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you
spray? (Just after lights come on, just before they go out...) lately just at the 6 hr off period.
R) How often do you replace reservoir water/nutes? What does it look like before changes? (clear, foamy, green, brown...) light brown, not as often as i would like sometimes 30 days.

Your growroom:
S) What size of closet, room or hut? 3 rooms 450 sq feet.
T) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? central air set about 77, near lights a bit warmer. 50 to 60 rh
U) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? Thrips today, used neem oil.
V) Are the roots long and white, or brown and slimy? mostly white, some plants do brown a bit, no slime.

Your strain:
W) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Both
X) From seeds or clones? Both
Y) Is this an autoflower strain? None