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06-10-2010, 08:36 PM #11
Senior Member
Gaza aid flotilla attacked, 10 killed
This is a useless exercise. People who only cite CAMERA, MEMRI, the Washington Report for Near East Affairs are not serious. You are not critical thinkers. You do not look for a true examination of the facts. In many ways you remind me of myself when I was nineteen. I held similar views on Israel and US affairs.
Let me ask you Islandborn, delusionsofNORMALity, and Rusty, have you ever been to a refugee camp - any refugee camp? Bonus points if you've been to a Palestinian refugee camp. Have you been to Gaza or even the West Bank? If yes, in what capacity?
I served my country (America). I spent 15 years in and out of the Middle East including 5 years living in Gaza, Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and the West Bank. I spend an additional 5 years living in Jordan where I was responsible for regional operations taking me to the cities and camps of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and back to Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. I have spent the past 5 years providing support for global operations in the Muslim world (Indonesia to Morocco) with a variety of government and private sector concerns. I'll throw in my 2 degrees focused on Middle East Relations and USG certified (and paid for) Arabic language proficiency via training in the US and Tunisia for good measure. I have been shot at repeatedly by all sides to this mess and I have given back. I have the PTSD to show for it.
I started where you are today. I thought that what was good for Israel was good for the US - that our interests were one. But I quickly learned that Americans are not being given the truth. We have been fed a menu of half truths and lies so that we will support the ongoing suppression of the Palestinian national rights and the theft of their land. I understood this after my first visit to the Gaza as a 19 year old wet-behind-the-ears punk. So I studied and I read, from all sources, not just those that I agree with.
Israel is not a democracy - don't fool yourself. Democracies don't occupy and disenfranchise millions of people. Perhaps you could argue Israel is a democracy for Jewish Israelis but that leaves 1/5 of the population out of the equation, not to mention the millions living under occupation. Wow, that is some democracy.
The problem that the US and Israel now face is that they have closed the door to a two state solution, so what is left?
A. Dismantle and withdraw the settlers to create a viable Palestinian state (a recipe for civil war with the religious crazies in Israel and we know who wins that fight).
B. Declare a bi-national state and give everyone the vote within a single polity call it what you want.
C. Expel the Palestinians (very much an option with a government that includes racist like Rafi Etian and Avigdor Lieberman),
D. Continued disenfranchisement of the Palestinians while taking more and more of their land.
So what does that leave us with? A and B are non-starters. C is an option but least preferred due to the ramifications. Which leaves us with D - Israel will become more and more of an apartheid state. That leaves you to defend an increasingly apartheid style regime. Good luck with that. Oh and if you have not lived with the occupation please don't tell me that does not constitute apartheid. I do not want my country going any further down this road. Either we impose a two state solution or we start to withdraw our support from the Israeli state.
So let's hear it Islandborn, delusionsofNORMALity, and Rusty, what are your credentials? What do you bring to the table? I do not expect a serious answer because you are not serious people. Your strategy is to yell and scream, stir up jingoistic anger, and name call. You are not interested in facts because facts force you into uncomfortable realizations.
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