Draconia Tactics at The Aurora Mall

[Dorje113]

No, no, my point is that little tidbit of info is great but it's like treating the symptoms instead of the disease itself. You posted something someone else thought up, awesome, now what are you gonna DO about this rising police state culture?
:thumbsup:

Direct confrontation with the police isn't going to help though.

I completely agree with highpop, make your life easier and don't argue with cops. Agree with them, apologize, and save yourself a lot of hassle and a lot of money. I don't have time to argue or try to prove myself right, especially when dealing with cops... Cops are tools for the most part and aren't interested in anything you have to say, unless it's to incriminate yourself. The less said the better.

[lampost]

I agree that it's wise to act how Highpopalarum suggested IF YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING WRONG. However, if I've done nothing wrong and am accosted like this then sure as hell I'm going to stick up for myself a little bit!! You can stick up for yourself a little bit and be OK as StoneyJake has shown us! But it's a fine line dealing with the cops and you're always risking their retribution...

Now, if he had a 1/4 in his pocket then I'd tell him to act exactly as you suggested. But there's a lot of misinformation out there. If you get pulled over carrying and refuse to answer questions from the police or consent to a search then you're just asking for it!! Really the best way to deal with the cops in a traffic stop is to have your story straight, be very polite and calm, and have any herb vacuum-sealed and stored in a very difficult to find location. This way, if you do arouse suspicion and get searched you have a minimal chance of still getting away. However, if you stonewall the cops and you're carrying... they're going to know and they'll spend all afternoon searching your car until they find something!!

I'm not sure how the ACLU says you should act in a traffic stop now, but I think there's a lot of misleading info out there!

Peace,LP

[HighPopalorum]

I'm not sure how the ACLU says you should act in a traffic stop now, but I think there's a lot of misleading info out there!

Funny you ask! Allow me to provide the link to the ACLU's downloadable bust card. It covers exactly what you should do in your car, at home and in general.

EDIT: What the hell, here's the entire thing. You can still follow the link if you want the wallet-sized card.

Know Your Rights: What To Do If Youâ??re Stopped By The Police (Bust Card)

We all recognize the need for effective law enforcement, but we should also understand our own rights and responsibilities â?? especially in our relationships with the police. Everyone, including minors, has the right to courteous and respectful police treatment. If your rights are violated, don't try to deal with the situation at the scene. You can talk to a lawyer afterwards, or file a complaint with the Internal Affairs or Civilian Complaint Board.

Think carefully about your words, movement, body language, and emotions.
Don't get into an argument with the police.
Remember, anything you say or do can be used against you.
Keep your hands where the police can see them.
Don't run. Don't touch any police officer.
Don't resist even if you believe you are innocent.
Don't complain on the scene or tell the police they're wrong or that you're going to file a complaint.
Do not make any statements regarding the incident.
Ask for a lawyer immediately upon your arrest.
Remember officers' badge & patrol car numbers.
Write down everything you remember ASAP.
Try to find witnesses and their names and phone numbers.
If you are injured, take photographs of the injuries as soon as possible, but make sure you seek medical attention first.

If you feel your rights have been violated, file a written complaint with police department's internal affairs division or civilian board, or call the ACLU hotline, 1-877-634-5454.

What you say to the police is always important. What you say can be used against you, and it can give the police an excuse to arrest you, especially if you bad-mouth a police officer.

You must show your driver's license and registration when stopped in a car. Otherwise, you don't have to answer any questions if you are detained or arrested, with one important exception. The police may ask for your name if you have been properly detained, and you can be arrested in some states for refusing to give it. If you reasonably fear that your name is incriminating, you can claim the right to remain silent, which may be a defense in case you are arrested anyway.

You don't have to consent to any search of yourself, your car or your house. If you DO consent to a search, it can affect your rights later in court. If the police say they have a search warrant, ASK TO SEE IT.

Do not interfere with, or obstruct the police â?? you can be arrested for it.

IF YOU ARE STOPPED FOR QUESTIONING
It's not a crime to refuse to answer questions, but refusing to answer might make the police suspicious about you. If you are asked to identify yourself, see paragraph 2 above.
Police may "pat-down" your clothing if they suspect a concealed weapon. Don't physically resist, but make it clear that you don't consent to any further search.
Ask if you are under arrest. If you are, you have a right to know why.
Don't bad-mouth the police officer or run away, even if you believe what is happening is unreasonable. That could lead to your arrest.

IF YOU'RE STOPPED IN YOUR CAR
Upon request, show them your driver's license, registration, and proof of insurance. In certain cases, your car can be searched without a warrant as long as the police have probable cause. To protect yourself later, you should make it clear that you do not consent to a search. It is not lawful for police to arrest you simply for refusing to consent to a search.
If you're given a ticket, you should sign it; otherwise you can be arrested. You can always fight the case in court later.
If you're suspected of drunk driving (DWI) and refuse to take a blood, urine or breath test, your driver's license may be suspended.

IF YOU'RE ARRESTED OR TAKEN TO A POLICE STATION
You have the right to remain silent and to talk to a lawyer before you talk to the police. Tell the police nothing except your name and address. Don't give any explanations, excuses or stories. You can make your defense later, in court, based on what you and your lawyer decide is best.
Ask to see a lawyer immediately. If you can't pay for a lawyer, you have a right to a free one, and should ask the police how the lawyer can be contacted. Don't say anything without a lawyer.
Within a reasonable time after your arrest, or booking, you have the right to make a local phone call: to a lawyer, bail bondsman, a relative or any other person. The police may not listen to the call to the lawyer.
Sometimes you can be released without bail, or have bail lowered. Have your lawyer ask the judge about this possibility. You must be taken before the judge on the next court day after arrest.
Do not make any decisions in your case until you have talked with a lawyer.

IN YOUR HOME
If the police knock and ask to enter your home, you don't have to admit them unless they have a warrant signed by a judge.
However, in some emergency situations (like when a person is screaming for help inside, or when the police are chasing someone) officers are allowed to enter and search your home without a warrant.
If you are arrested, the police can search you and the area close by. If you are in a building, "close by" usually means just the room you are in.

[Zedleppelin]

Direct confrontation with the police isn't going to help though.

I completely agree with highpop, make your life easier and don't argue with cops. Agree with them, apologize, and save yourself a lot of hassle and a lot of money. I don't have time to argue or try to prove myself right, especially when dealing with cops... Cops are tools for the most part and aren't interested in anything you have to say, unless it's to incriminate yourself. The less said the better.

What are you saying??? NEVER agree with them!

The best way to handle cops? Shut the fuck up.

Here is the best video on the subject.....
YouTube - Dont Talk to Police

[StoneyJake]

Thanks for the support guys. I will be contacting lawyers today when I get off work. I totally agree with not talking to police in a traffic stop. You have to admit this is a little different, my constitutional right were violated. I dont think anyone should let police officers take away their rights. I was mortified when I realized what was going on and acted on adrenaline. lol

I got the name of the police officer yesterday. The people at the mall told me it was a officer Grant Peet that detained me.

[Reenster]

Its obvious that the police over stepped their bounds, its obvious that there is precedents that what the Mall did was a violation of Jake's first amendment rights.

Could the situation been handled smoother, sure, but when you feel something as basic as your constitutional rights have been violated, it's your right and duty to speak up. I would have been hard pressed to act differently under those circumstances.

I am so tired of hearing, "think about the children". A marijuana leaf on a tee shirt will not harm a child. Lies and isolation from real life will harm a child. It's important to let your children know that there are activities that adults can choose but are not acceptable for children. It's important to give your child a strong grasp of you moral views, but you need to let them know that your views are not the only view. Teach them well and they will make informed decisions.

I have emailed the owner of the Aurora Mall Towne Center. I am curious if they support this type of management. Some rules and laws are unjust and civil disobedience is one way to draw attention to them. That is what 420 celebrations are about, hell that was what the original tea party was about.

[Klonzinc]

I'm not a slave. I'm an adult. That language is taken verbatim from the ACLU bust card in my wallet. Millions of other Americans carry the same one. You call it brown nosing; I call it knowing and aggressively protecting my rights.

EXACTLY!!!!!! I call it playing BEATING THEM AT THEIR OWN GAME.

should any lawsuite go forth I would insist the termination of the guards, officers, and mall manager be part of the suite. JMO

[HighPopalorum]

Could the situation been handled smoother, sure, but when you feel something as basic as your constitutional rights have been violated, it's your right and duty to speak up. I would have been hard pressed to act differently under those circumstances.

I would have acted differently as soon as the first police officer arrived. The only words that would have come out of my mouth are: "I do not consent to this search." "Am I free to go?" and "On the advice of counsel, I decline to answer." The Fifth Amendment is there to protect the innocent, not only the guilty; it was a tactically stupid decision to waive it by speaking voluntarily. I haven't much doubt that if Jake does try to bring suit, or if the police decide to file charges, the result will be a poor one for Jake because he talked too much already. Whether you are innocent or guilty, it is always unwise to talk to the police, even if you feel yourself to be innocent or if you feel your rights have been violated. Rob Corry or Brian Vicente or any criminal defense attorney will tell you exactly the same thing.

[denverbear]

I'm not a slave. I'm an adult. That language is taken verbatim from the ACLU bust card in my wallet. Millions of other Americans carry the same one. You call it brown nosing; I call it knowing and aggressively protecting my rights.

otherwise known as picking your fights...very good info ..

[cowdog]

Maybe contact the owners of the mall?!?! I bet they don't even know about this and how it was handled.
just a thought
cowdog