Need advice on correcting mistakes before it's too late...

[ilduderino]

Okay, situation...buddy has been flowering for 4 or 5 weeks...two different strains that are indica-types with around 9 week flowering times for both...growth is stunted and leaves are showing signs of multiple deficiencies....mostly cal-mag and potassium type symptoms...I told him it was probably ph and in a panic he dumped a about a cup of dolomite lime per gallon of water solution into the soil, before he tested (I made him buy the soil ph tester the next day and sure enough, ph's are still around 6.1 or so 2 days after the dolomite blast) AND he foliar fed them a concoction including spray and grow+bills perfect fertilizer+epsom salts+a crushed up tums (for calcium he said!)+a teaspoon of dyna gro pro-tekt...so now we have some plants drenched in this concoction, sitting in soil drenched in dolomite lime-laden water....I was about to tell him to add wood ash, but now I'm thinking all this crap has been done to them I dont want to complicate things further...should we just wait and see what happens...or should we flush w clearex (and foliar rinse with distilled) right away? OR.... should we go all out and transplant into decent potting mix mid flower? And then what...? The buds look small but nice (maybe even a bit too mature and crystalized for their size...) but many of the plants are totally pale green/yellow with burned blotchy and twisted leaves that don't look capable of photosynthesis, while others are still nice and green with bigger buds. My inclination is to go drastic, simply shake off the root balls and transplant into nice new conditioned potting mix and hit em with a high nitrogen organic veg fertilizer to maybe set back the clock a bit and try to replay the last 2-3 weeks of flowering...add some green back to the leaves and extending the time frame but increasing the yield of these stunted yellow plants? Or is it simply too late and just try to flush out the current crappy soil, stabilize it as best as possible, and carry on from here and hope for the best? A lot of ifs I know, but just looking to hear suggestions.

ilduderino Reviewed by ilduderino on 04-29-2010. Need advice on correcting mistakes before it's too late... Okay, situation...buddy has been flowering for 4 or 5 weeks...two different strains that are indica-types with around 9 week flowering times for both...growth is stunted and leaves are showing signs of multiple deficiencies....mostly cal-mag and potassium type symptoms...I told him it was probably ph and in a panic he dumped a about a cup of dolomite lime per gallon of water solution into the soil, before he tested (I made him buy the soil ph tester the next day and sure enough, ph's are still Rating: 5

[Dutch Pimp]

buddy has been flowering for 4 or 5 weeks...two different strains that are indica-types with around 9 week flowering times for both..

so...they have been flowering 5 weeks or 9 weeks?...or did you start 12/12 from the beginning?...anyways...I would just flush with Ph 6.8 water and wait and watch the new growth. If it's 5 weeks...a transplant MAY help?

[Rusty Trichome]

Geez...where to start...

...growth is stunted and leaves are showing signs of multiple deficiencies....mostly cal-mag and potassium type symptoms

According to whom...?

...I told him it was probably ph and in a panic he dumped a about a cup of dolomite lime per gallon of water solution into the soil, before he tested (I made him buy the soil ph tester the next day and sure enough, ph's are still around 6.1 or so 2 days after the dolomite blast) AND he foliar fed them a concoction including spray and grow+bills perfect fertilizer+epsom salts+a crushed up tums (for calcium he said!)+a teaspoon of dyna gro pro-tekt

Keep your friend away from the garden. One way to stress the ladies beyond all hope is to add shit without knowing why, how much, or why not. Never add anything not intended for the garden unless you enjoy torturing your plants. Especially if uncomposted, uncooked or otherwise not in a form the plant can uptake. Tums, coffee grounds, eggshells are common mistakes in container gardening, as is epsom salt overuse. Uncomposted garbage in the container takes too long to break-down, interracts with other chemicals and compounds that the fertilizer supplies, can swing ph wildly, can cause pathogens and rot, and by the time it starts breaking down to usable components, the plants have been long-since harvested.

Cannabis is a weed and can take a bunch of abuse, and still grow. But if you keep shooting your thoroughbreds in the foot with every mis-diagnosis and ill-concieved treatments, your results will smoke like a weed.
Till you get really good at diagnosing your ladies ills, likely best to fill-out the CanCom troubleshooting form whenever necessary, and let an experienced gardener help.

...so now we have some plants drenched in this concoction, sitting in soil drenched in dolomite lime-laden water....I was about to tell him to add wood ash, but now I'm thinking all this crap has been done to them I dont want to complicate things further

Wise afterthought. :thumbsup:

...should we just wait and see what happens...or should we flush w clearex (and foliar rinse with distilled) right away? OR.... should we go all out and transplant into decent potting mix mid flower?

I'd transplant them asap, and hope for the best. The shit that has been added won't magically disappear and can cause problems in the near future.

...And then what...? The buds look small but nice (maybe even a bit too mature and crystalized for their size...) but many of the plants are totally pale green/yellow with burned blotchy and twisted leaves that don't look capable of photosynthesis, while others are still nice and green with bigger buds. My inclination is to go drastic, simply shake off the root balls and transplant into nice new conditioned potting mix and hit em with a high nitrogen organic veg fertilizer to maybe set back the clock a bit and try to replay the last 2-3 weeks of flowering.

Personally, If all this info is correct, I'd flush the crap out of 'em, (3-5 times pot volume of properly ph'd water) and then let the rootball dry-out. Wet rootballs fall apart, which isn't good. If you remove all of the potting soil, you lose the rootball structure and when you replace the soil you will break, fold, spindle and mutilate the roots. Once dry or semi-moist, I'd carefully massage-away as much of the old soil without doing any damage to the roots, and re-plant in a quality container potting mix with perlite in it. (a larger container would be nice, if possible) Water with properly ph'd water, and resume normal feedings per manufacturers instructions the next scheduled feeding day. No extra's, no mega-doses of anything, no concoctions or sprays...nada. Just watering and your nutrients. In about a month I'd start small doses (1/2 teaspoon per gallon of properly ph'd water) unsulfered molasses. This provides calcium, magnesium, iron, and carbs. A solid replacement for CalMag Plus and all carbo-load products.

This is where it get's tricky...from this point forward, pretend you know nothing about diagnosing your plant's ills, and post your problem and situation here before any real damage can be done. I can respect taking initative, but I respect common sense more. :jointsmile:

And keep in mind...fixing your growroom ills is a process, not an event. Treatments take time to show results, so patience between steps is mandatory.

[bigsby]

Hey Rusty,

I don't mean to hijack a thread here but would you mind detailing when and why to use Epsom salts? Also, what quantities are appropriate?

[Rusty Trichome]

Have you read this thread...?:

Epsom salts is not a miracle cure

Tells how and why.

[ilduderino]

Thanks for the suggestions. So as far as foliar feeding, (not with random drug store products but with spray and grow products designed for foliar feeding) in the interim to try to help replenish what the roots aren't pullin up, that's a negatory?

Also, the plants are five, maybe six weeks into flowering...out of an (approximate) 9 week cycle, is it a valid idea to try to set back the clock by adding a nitrogen fertilizer after transplanting with the hopes of putting some chlorophyl back into the plants and getting a second chance on the last couple of weeks maturation process?

[ilduderino]

Also...its a lot of buckets and bags in a small ungainly space, and it will be a lot of work to do thorough flushing and/or transplanting...so, assuming the lazy man's position for a moment...would simply watering like normal with clearex or something, followed by a hydroponics-type liquid ph raising product be a viable alternative?

Again, thanks, and the comment about saving the plants being a process rather than an event is well taken.:toilet_claw:

[KillerBudG]

Invest Time, Care,Time, and work with your plant as they tell you what they need, you will enjoy your flowers once harvest. "Quality smoke"

Be lazy, experiment, let salt buildups, Root shock/drama, hot media, Leave your plants alone maybe water them here and there whenever you want off the couch or out of potato chips, untidy clean growing conditions/area. Will not give you much of a quality smoke if you are fortunate to make it to harvest anything. "Shitty ass smoke"

If you don't take anything Rusty has just went over into consideration, And start to fix theses problems. I hope yous really enjoy what you reaped since someone was kind enough to enlighten ya, then you say ya just 2 lazy to do it.


~One~:rastasmoke:
~BudG~:rastasmoke::rastasmoke:

[Rusty Trichome]

Thanks for the suggestions. So as far as foliar feeding, (not with random drug store products but with spray and grow products designed for foliar feeding) in the interim to try to help replenish what the roots aren't pullin up, that's a negatory?

Correct. Unnecessary, and can clog the respritory system (the stoma's can clog) Only time I EVER spray, is to correct deficiencies, or kill gnats.
The biggest help you can offer your plants, is to read the ingredients of everything you give your ladies, and get very familiar with those ingredients. How many times are the same components listed as the active ingredients on your assortment of products? Most are likely a sugar beet or cane sugar processed product. (molasses) Some add a little kelp or bat guano or whatever, but the active ingredient in most additives is molasses or urea. Diluted, colored (possibly) and with a hefty sticker price. However they bottle it...it's still designer molasses.
The trick to troubleshooting and correcting isn't in a new product to give the ladies...it's figuring-out which product or combination of products you already use, that is causing the stress. "Advanced" nutrient companies want you to think it's not your fault...but they do have a product to fix that exact problem. (which causes other problems itself)

Keep it simple. All I use is the Fox Farms trio, some Soil Syrup (liquid humic acid) after monthly flushes, and molasses in flower. Oh, and phosphoric acid to adjust my 7.9 wellwater. I still have half a bottle of Sweet, and half a bottle of CalMag Plus I'll never use.

Also, the plants are five, maybe six weeks into flowering...out of an (approximate) 9 week cycle, is it a valid idea to try to set back the clock by adding a nitrogen fertilizer after transplanting with the hopes of putting some chlorophyl back into the plants and getting a second chance on the last couple of weeks maturation process?

Old leaves are old news. Very doubtful you'll ever be able to restore the original color and vigor to the old leaves. Correct the problems, and wait till new growth comes-in. That will give you an idea whether or not your efforts are paying off.
Your 9 week flowering cycle is out the window. Have you thought of perhaps a re-veg?

[bigsby]

Why are you giving your friends tours of your grow op anyway?