Noob's First Grow - Advice Needed

[TreetopFarmer]

Hey all,

I've been around the forums for about a month now with research and such, but I finally registered because I figured I may as well share my plan and request advice to get it exact. Like I said, most of this plan is based solely upon research. I'm currently experimenting with some reg seeds to get the feel of it, but that's using a small aeroponics system.

Now before I start, this is a system that will probably require some money to build, but from what I can put together, feasibly it will run very efficiently, silently, and will most importantly force consistency. Also, although I do have the money to do this, I am open to cheaper options that keep the system about as automated as it will be described. Basically I want the system to function to the point where I could potentially leave town for the weekend and not have to worry about keeping an eye on it.

So here it is:

I'm planning on doing a soil grow (using 3gal pots) with two separate tents created by dropping panda plastic from the required areas to create the tent-like structure (I'm using panda plastic and not Mylar because I read somewhere that Mylar is very effective when mounted to a flat surface, but very inefficient when it's bent/crinkled. Whether this is true or not doesn't really matter to me, for the price and convenience of panda plastic, I'm willing to take the 7% increased reflectivity hit). Each tent will have a light-blocking zipper door for access.

I'll be growing LR (Lowryder) type 1's due to the relatively compact space in both areas.

Tent 1 (smaller of the two - 3.5'x4.5'x3'(tall)):

I'm planning on growing 4 plants in this area (meaning 10,000 lumens for veg and 40,000 lumens for flowering are required to properly grow, and because LR's are very light and nut dependent, I'd rather have more than less).

Light: 8bulb 4ft. t5 high output florescent fixture with 6.5K bulbs supplemented with 4 single bulb stand-up 2ft. t5 fixtures with 6.5k bulbs (total initial lumens = 50,000 - non-initial should still be above 40,000, but I'll only have to worry about that for the first week or so in which case they'll be veggin anyway). With the amount of use, I'll have to replace the bulbs about every 3 years.

I'll also be using two surge protectors which have outlets on them controlled by their own timers to control the lighting for me.

Ventilation: Everything is going to be created so that it is as air-tight as possible, which means that the panda plastic will be properly adhered to any fans and such to create a good seal.

I'm planning on using the AIR-1 atmosphere controller to control both an inline exhaust fan with a carbon filter for the air output and a simple in-line duct fan to pull fresh air into the system. The in-line duct fan will also have a fan controller to keep the cfm's on both fans even, and I'm going to mod it so that it has a free-moving, weatherstripped flap cover on the part of the fan inside the tent (so none of the stank gets out). The AIR-1 controller will activate when the sensors within it detect that atmosphere conditions are higher than those preset, and will thus activate both fans at the same time to filter in air properly. This system should be able to refresh the tent's air in a matter of seconds (and that's also with buying the weaker/weakest vent type fans out there).

Also, to keep circulation within the system, I will have a small 6" clip-on fan that will move air around mainly between the lights and the canopy (even though florescents don't get that hot, I need the air circulation to happen just to keep a better environment).

Temperature and Humidity: I don't think I'll have to worry about temperature with those lights, they should put out enough heat to keep it around more than 70F (in which case my vent system will take care of it).

As far as humidity goes, I'll be getting a 1.3G digital tower-style cool mist humidifier that allows me to preset the humidity to a certain percentage (so as far as the humidity setting goes on the AIR-1, it's basically a fallback). With as much as it will put out daily (which won't be even half of the max amount), I'll have to clean it and replace the water every 3-4 days.

I will have two separate hygrometers to monitor temp and humidity (just in case).

Tent 2 (larger of the two - 2.5'x6.5'x7'(tall)):

I'm planning on growing 8 plants in this area (meaning 20,000 lumens for veg and 80,000 lumens for flowering are required to properly grow).

Light: 600w HPS with a Hortilux bulb, 6" vent port, and an adjustable height pulley system (total initial = 88,000 lumens, non-initial should be above 80,000). I'll veg about 5' from the plants (they can potentially grow about 2' tall), and then I'll adjust the light as necessary for flowering. Again, powered by a ballast that will be put on a surge protected, timed outlet.

Ventilation: Same system with two differences. It will take a few more seconds to completely refresh the air, and the exhaust fan (with the filter) will be connected to the 6" duct hole on the light fixture with mylar-coated vent tubing.

Temperature and Humidity: Same system.

Objective of the Tents: I'm going for a rather discrete growing area by setting up tarp and properly ventilating the tents to create virtually no smell (I'll have air-fresheners in the room to help out as well). Each tent is essentially it's own, automatically controlled biodome that holds ideal conditions constantly to promote close to the best yield possible. I'm trying to make it so the systems are self-sustainable for up to 3-4 days without me having to check on/change/replace anything.

Nutrients (I'm using the Botanicare line):

Pure Blend Pro Grow
Pure Blend Pro Bloom for Soil
Liquid Karma
Cal-Mag
Sweet
Hydroplex Bloom Enhancer (might not need it, looked interesting)

My water will be kept around a 6.7 pH. My tap water (after letting it sit obviously) is very basic, so I use lemon or lime drops to fix it. I use the GroChek Combo meter by HI to monitor pH and ppm.

Plan of Action:

First I will germ my plants with an automated aeroponics system (I will be using the Power Plant Pro by Prepara; conveniently for me it has 6 seed spots per pot, so I only need two to germ my entire grow at the same time) using non-nutrient water.

Once they're germ'd to a proper size, I will keep them in the sponge they're already in and put them straight into 3gal pots (one plant per pot) with Miracle Gro's potting mix.

I'll then mix the nut water accordingly (when nuts need to be added to the water) and healthily water the plants. Then I'll be using water globes to regulate the watering on each and every plant.

My Questions:

Now that you all know what I'm dealing with and what I'm planning to do and how I'm planning to do it, I have some questions...

-Could someone please list/direct me to a general ppm guide for growing in soil (I'm specifically looking for a general ppm guide for the water which will be added to the soil; so basically in order to build up nuts in the soil at a proper rate, what should my water's ppm be on a weekly basis? - a ppm guideline from germ-harvest would be nice)? I've looked all over this site and many other sites and have not found a general ppm guideline for soil (everyone I see says to mix as instructed and don't worry about it...is this REALLY how it is with soil? Sorry I'm so paranoid about this, I'm coming from growing hydro/aero so this is a big change that I'm taking hard precautions with...however irrational it seems.).

-Also, I know for hydro/aero you should flush a week before harvest, but since soil holds nuts longer, should I extend that to 10 days? 2 weeks? Leave it at a week?

-Obviously I'm making my own fertilizer mix, if ppm doesn't matter with soil, should I just mix the amount listed on the back of the Botanicare bottles (for soil use obviously)? If so, how often should I be giving the plants nutrient water as opposed to non-nutrient water (I know these answers are found precisely by keeping a close eye on your plants, which is why I'm asking in general...I'm trying not to screw this up TOO bad the first time around; I just want a general guideline)?

-Also, if I'm using water globes (which, by the way, will have their water replaced weekly), I'm assuming if I should on/off the nutrients (one day nut, next day no nut), would I be safe in averaging the amount of nut put into the plants per week and mixing that amount into the water that will go into the water globes (my assumption would be yes since I'm using soil)? I'm assuming that I should be monitoring my soil ppm content in order to figure this one out exactly.

-Am I correct as far as how much lumens I need? Do I need less/more light in each tent? Is a 600w too much; should I drop to a 400w? (I might supplement Tent 2 with the same stand-up 2' t5 fixtures as Tent 1 if necessary...what do you guys think?)

-As far as the 600w HPS goes, am I correct with how high that light needs to be both with veg and flowering (assume the pots will all be next to each other with a maximum 4" gap between each pot - LR likes to grow super compact and plants will probably sit about 8" above the ground in the pots)? What advice do you guys have about this one?

-BIG QUESTION: Do you think this is a fairly decent setup? Does it sound like I relatively know what I'm doing? Give me your opinion. I want all the advise I can get.

I think that's all I have for now, if I run into anything else I'll post it. Please and thank you in advance for all the advice/criticism anyone throws at me.

Man...I need a toke after all that.. :rastasmoke:

TreetopFarmer Reviewed by TreetopFarmer on 04-28-2010. Noob's First Grow - Advice Needed Hey all, I've been around the forums for about a month now with research and such, but I finally registered because I figured I may as well share my plan and request advice to get it exact. Like I said, most of this plan is based solely upon research. I'm currently experimenting with some reg seeds to get the feel of it, but that's using a small aeroponics system. Now before I start, this is a system that will probably require some money to build, but from what I can put together, Rating: 5

[bigsby]

I'm in the planning stage of a very similar setup. I've done a few grows previously but years ago. I have been readying everything I can find and have built up a pretty solid knowledge base. I'm building my room in a basement so no tent needed although I will use a prefab tent for veg. I am about 3 weeks from building my room. I look forward to following your progress. You seem to have done your homework.

I'm doing a soil grow too and will be using the formula provided by stinkyattic in this noob guide. Soil, nutes and such are discussed at length. You should re-read if you only gave it a skim.

My first reaction is that space will be a premium in the flower tent with this setup. Doable to but a tight fit. Why not just buy prebuilt tents and forget about the panda? BTW panda is better for your situation as it is lightproof. Mylar is not.

You should have no need for the intake fan - negative pressure should do the trick although there may be considerable movement with the panda film. Also, with prebuilt tents you could daisy chain the fan exhaust between the two. Not sure if that was your plan or not but would be much easier with grow tents.

Yes, your flush will be longer - 10 days or more optimal, 7 days at least.

Nute routine - go by the directions but also see the noob guide referenced above. Stinky covers that in detail.

Good luck. You are on the right path. See the sticky in my signature line for some good setup material.

[bigsby]

I re-read your post. I take back the space comments. Your space should be fine. Tight but doable.

Your lighting looks fine. You might consider LED. Lower heat, lower long term costs. Less to worry about (i.e. fire or burning yourself). I'm using florescent lights in my veg room and LED for flower. With LED your watering requirements are considerably less. Depending on their stage of development, you can leave them a week and longer with LED which you listed as an objective.

My room will be 6'W x 8.5'L x 6.5'H with a 2' x 4' section devoted to a veg / mother tent. I'm happy to swap materials lists if you are interested. Let me know I'll post mine here.

[TreetopFarmer]

bigs,

Good to know I've got someone else to relate with, and sure, go ahead and list your stuff man; we can keep bouncing ideas and grow logs throughout this whole process.

3 weeks?...nice...mine I'm not quite sure on yet because of money, but I would like to have everything set up by the end of next month.

As far as the panda plastic goes...non-see-through was the other thing I forgot on that note, thanks for adding it.

I did actually think about just leaving the room with the negative pressure and it would be fine, but then I thought that it would be deficient as far as smell prevention goes, so that's why I put it in with the fan controller (by the way, both of those products combined costs me maybe $50, so I'm okay with having a complete breathing system for an extra 50). Also, as you stated, because it's a tent structure (even though it will be held down at the corners), distorting the shape of it through negative pressure could potentially do some unwanted damage, so like I said, for $50, may as well.

As far as that guide goes for nut/repotting...THANK YOU!! I needed that SO badly. I'll definitely keep that reference handy.

Now about lighting, honestly, I never really looked far into an LED HID setup mainly because I didn't know if the technology was proven and if it was really more efficient (should be since it should penetrate into the canopy just the same). But honestly, that second tent's lighting could be changed...how large/how many HID LEDs do you think I'll need to put out that 80,000 lumen amount needed during flowering? What brand/type of lights do you suggest? I'd like to learn more about the LED HID route.

Also, quick question to anyone, does having a little more light than necessary hurt the plants or is it okay (I know heat created by the lights is bad, but how about having more than enough lumens)? Or should I be keeping a strict 2500 veg/10,000 flower?

[bigsby]

bigs, Good to know I've got someone else to relate with, and sure, go ahead and list your stuff man; we can keep bouncing ideas and grow logs throughout this whole process.

Here is my shopping list. Tell me what I'm missing. I'm going to use a 3w LED panel for flowering. More on LED below. I've already purchased half the stuff needed. Also, I'm building a little hydroponic cloning box. I'll send the details if you are interested. So easy...

Lumber / Drywall / Screws / Mud
Fan (240 CFM)
Fan Speed Controller
Carbon filter
Duct
Muffler (if needed)
Mylar
Scrog screen
Lights
Timer
Thermometer / Hydrometer
Trays
Pots
Ph Kit
Humus
Perlite
Botanicare PureBlend Grow & Bloom for Soil
TopMax
Unsulfured Molasses
Seeds
Tupperware for Clone Box
Air Pump
10â?� Aaquaculture Bubble Curtain
Air Hose
Plasti-Dip Spray On black
Clonex Liquid
Rooting Gel
Moisture Meter

I did actually think about just leaving the room with the negative pressure and it would be fine, but then I thought that it would be deficient as far as smell prevention goes, so that's why I put it in with the fan controller (by the way, both of those products combined costs me maybe $50, so I'm okay with having a complete breathing system for an extra 50). Also, as you stated, because it's a tent structure (even though it will be held down at the corners), distorting the shape of it through negative pressure could potentially do some unwanted damage, so like I said, for $50, may as well.

Wait are you thinking that you're going to use a couple of can fans to exhaust through a carbon filter? That won't work. You'll need a real fan for that. If I misread and you will use an inline fan on one end and the duct booster on the other then my only comment is to get a fan controller so you can dial it in properly. I understand that using an active intake can greatly complicate the equation. See this nOOb guide for a detailed discussion of fan sizing.

As far as that guide goes for nut/repotting...THANK YOU!! I needed that SO badly. I'll definitely keep that reference handy.

This place is filled with great info like that. Take a look at the top level forums. All start with stickies - most worth reading. See here for example. Then drill down into any of the sub-threads for more sticky goodness.

Snippet

I'd like to learn more about the LED HID route.

You need to do proper research if you go this route. It is difficult to compare LED with HID light sources. HID has the advantage of penetration. Nothing beats it. Lumins are not so important when it comes to usable energy for a plant. What counts is wave length of the light reaching the plant. Plants "see" and make the most use of the red and blue spectrum wave lengths. So 99% of the yellow and orange light produced by the HID lights do not benefit the plant. LED technology has only recently becoming feasible. Beware, there is a load of crap on the market. There are also 10 naysayers for every believer. You need to find the right product and prepare for sticker shock. The initial investment is heavy. But the rewards are there - no heat, no bulb replacement costs, minimal electric costs, no risk of fire and on. When you take the long view the lights pay for them selves in a few years. Check out this guy's grow. It shows what can be done. Also see this one. There are bunch of LED people working here who can better advise you on technical details.

Also, quick question to anyone, does having a little more light than necessary hurt the plants or is it okay (I know heat created by the lights is bad, but how about having more than enough lumens)? Or should I be keeping a strict 2500 veg/10,000 flower?

More light never hurts...

[TreetopFarmer]

Sorry for double posting. I just thought of a couple more questions...

-So I'm doing LR t1's. If you have no clue what it is, it's an autoflowering strain that has a life from germ-harvest of 2 months. Now how you're supposed to grow them is to treat them like seedlings for the first two weeks (2500 lumens per plant and veg nuts) and then for the remainder you treat them like they're flowering (10000 lumens per plant and flower nuts - for both veg and flower it's 18/6 light). So assuming this, should I be expecting to germ in aero for 3-4 days, then transfer to a 1gal pot after germ, then after two-ish weeks transfer the root balls to a 3gal pot? (sorry, just kinda putting thoughts down so you guys can make sure I'm thinking correctly :P)

-I heard calcium really helps during the flowering stage, but my question is in a soil system, if I'm using Pure Blend Pro Bloom for Soil during flowering with LK and Sweet, will it be necessary to add in Cal-Mag as well (I'm wondering because that is literally the only purpose I'm buying it for, so if I don't need it for the flower cycle then I don't need it period)?

[stra8outtaWeed]

bigs asked me to chime in here

LED's are awesome...they provide exactly the wavelength for your plants to make photosynthesis..building larger rootmass and healthier plants. My lights have 3w diodes that are stronger than the typical 1w models allowing more penetration and yields comparable to HPS. They use less electricity acheiving the same results..except i hasve found my meds to be more potent since switching to LED's...bummer for me:smokin:...they give off minimal heat therefore eliminating ducting heat out. I have been growing in a soil/coco medium but i think LED and hydro/aeroponic applications would do well together. :thumbsup:

[TreetopFarmer]

Wait are you thinking that you're going to use a couple of can fans to exhaust through a carbon filter? That won't work. You'll need a real fan for that. If I misread and you will use an inline fan on one end and the duct booster on the other then my only comment is to get a fan controller so you can dial it in properly. I understand that using an active intake can greatly complicate the equation. See this nOOb guide for a detailed discussion of fan sizing.

Maybe I wasn't clear with this...I'll break it down. I have an atmo controller that kicks on both fans at the same time if the sensors go off. One fan is a 4" in-line exhaust fan that has a carbon filter attachment and runs at 170cfm. The other fan is a 6" in-line duct fan (basically a metal cylinder with a fan in it) that operates at 250cfm, but with the fan controller I will be able to dial it down to 170cfm (so the intake and output are the same cfm).

Worst case, I'll have to dial the fan below 170cfm to create a guaranteed negative pressure inside the tent, but the system intake will provide major assistance so that it doesn't bend the tent inward too much. The fans will probably stay on less than a minute at a time anyway, so if I do end up dialing it under 170, I doubt I'll see hardly a bend in the tent walls.

As far as your list goes I think it's great. I don't think you'll need the muffler (the fans really don't operate that loudly at all), and I commend you for going more for the organic approach (with the molasses and all). Also, good luck with the cloning...me on the other hand, I'll have to force some seed growth in another area to keep me supplied.

Stra8, all I have to say is wow...I need to look into this, thanks for the chime.

Btw, the double post comment I made earlier is nullified, bigs posted before I was able to post that whole thing, lol.

[anbesol]

i just read about 1 paragraph of this and I saw that you were planning on growing lowryder, and lowryder in 3 gallon pots. Hold the grow!!!!! First off throw those lowryders away, there pieces of shit. I just got finished on one of my lowryder seeds a friend gave me and I was so disappointed!!! With 1 plant under 400 watt hps in 1 gallon pot with co2!!! I only got .6 grams and the bud was the size of a bic lighter. I know others will scoff and say i did something wrong, since ive never grown an auto flower, but i do very very well on my real grows. I used Advanced Nutrients Connoisseur with them 2. Good Luck...and get different seeds

[anbesol]

heres a pic for you to see....again one FULL PLANT!!! it had about 6 leaves to be trimmed....and the flavor to me was earthy with a slight bite of tobacco. The high was quick and slightly happy but only lasted 10 mins... I smoke about 1.5 grams a day of homegrown... just for comparison