Be afraid...

[F L E S H]

Your country was NOT founded on religious beliefs, and anyone who tells you so is lying. The founding fathers are a product of the Enlightenment, a strongly anti-religious (or anti-organized-religion) movement which directly fought against a king's "God given right" to rule. You see, kings used to justify their rule on them being chosen by God to be king. French (Oh no!) philosophers were completely against this idea and realized that God has nothing to do with effective government of any country.

The founding fathers are simply the first to apply French Enlightenment philosophy in a practical setting, and the French followed soon after (1789). Sure, they use "religious" languae sometimes in their documents, but that was simply the language of official documents at the time.

F L E S H Reviewed by F L E S H on 04-12-2005. Be afraid... The Crusaders Christian evangelicals are plotting to remake America in their own image By BOB MOSER Rolling Stone It's February, and 900 of America's staunchest Christian fundamentalists have gathered in Fort Lauderdale to look back on what they accomplished in last year's election -- and to plan what's next. As they assemble in the vast sanctuary of Coral Ridge Presbyterian, with all fifty state flags dangling from the rafters, three stadium-size video screens flash the name of the Rating: 5

[amsterdam]

then why did they all attend church?if you really believe that the united states was not founded on any religous beliefs you are wrong.im not saying they wrote up our govt. with religon but they were for sure god fearing people

[amsterdam]

could care less about the french,world superpower wannabe's.

[F L E S H]

I think you're wrong. I don't know whether they really went to Church or not, but that doesn't mean anything. Enlightenment thinkers were against all organized religions, no matter what they were. They were, in fact, Deists. It is a belief system where they believed ina supreme being, a creator, a deity, who created the Universe and set things in motion, and subsequently left us to our devices. That is the religion of the Enlightenment, that is the religion of your fouding fathers. Here are some interesting quotes, even though I admit they could be taken out of context (my favorite is from the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by John Adams ):

"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble." - Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

Every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience." - George Washington (Letter to the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789)

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)

"When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)

"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

Also see Treaty of Tripoli

"As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith." - Thomas Paine (Common Sense, 1776.)

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religion but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. We shall not fight alone. God presides over the destinies of nations." - Patrick Henry

"That religion, or the duty we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience." - Patrick Henry (Virginia Bill of Rights, June 12, 1776.)

[F L E S H]

could care less about the french,world superpower wannabe's.

Could care less about the French? Your entire country owes its existence to the French, whether you want to admit it or not. They gave you the Constitution, they helped you fight against the British.

[amsterdam]

that's my point.they were religous,but like anyone else they question religon too.they looked at both sides.

[F L E S H]

that's my point.they were religous,but like anyone else they question religon too.they looked at both sides.

No!! They weren't religious the way people are religious today. Read the damn quotes.

[amsterdam]

i did.religous.what "people are you talking about?they sound like i think.

[Mojavpa]

The Christian Right IS a formidable force in politics today. Its hard to see that if you live in New York or San francisco but the rest of the country goes to church evey week where their pastor tells them who to vote for. If so many people in the US werent Christian do you really think gay marriage or abortion would even be an issue? If there was no passage in the Bible about homosexuality being evil, then the argument against gay marriage would crumble because there are no other convincing reasons anyone can come up with to deny people who pay taxes everyday the right to marry. And Watch CNN or FOX news and you can see that atheists are never represented. When Larry King invites a "religious" panel to discuss some social issue, I never see an atheist discuss his take on it.

The sad thing is that many of these "Christians" who care more aout terri Shiavo and fetuses than about the Iraqi children who die everyday or the AIDS crisis actually think George Bush gives a rats ass about them. There is only thing on his mind: Power and greed. You can see this in the the lead up before the election; he seemed so intent on ending gay marriage. Now that he's elected he hardly says anything about it. He just needed the Christian vote to win, and now he can continue his imperialist agenda. Sometimes I pity stupid Christians for thinking that George Bush spends his time thinking about how all the fetuses are "dying". But then I think about how repulsive the American brand of Christianity is, and I cant wait for the revolution to start.

[amsterdam]

i have never heard my priest say anything about who to vote for?do you live in new york.W has donated more money to aids research and prevention in africa than anyone before him,anyone.maybe he didnt use it like maybe you would have but thats a personal problem.