Philosophy of Religion

[pepurr]

Due to my Native American perspective, I usually avoid discussions on religion because I have come to believe that they are all a leap of faith.

Believing is seeing, so after making that leap, we are no longer logical in our beliefs and see only facts that support our position.

Very much like Zen, I believe we are all one and but individual pieces of the whole. Sort of like cells in the body, or drops of water in a river.

If there is a concept of sin, it is creating disharmony against the whole, though my beliefs allow me to thwart the minions of chaos in defense of the whole, after the harmony has already been broken. Very much like our own bodies have anti-bodies.

As a student of ancient history, it is impossible to not be aware of the founding of the current dominant religions, of which there were about 10,000 different ones with a following of 500 or more devotees, last time I researched it.

There are divisions within that 10,000 of course, and for instance Christianity itself had about 32, 000 and change different variations, and growing rapidly.

Each of those religions and divisions will die believing they are right, and the odds seem high to my engineering mind, that most will be wrong, including the sheer probability of the numbers that I am amongst them.

I like to think I have a discerning scientific mind, but alas the more deeply I dig into the celestial dance that is going on, the more I realize how little I understand and the more in awe I am of the details of what is going on.

It appears to me that life itself is constantly searching and finding ways to evolve and fill new niches.

A study of the Cambrian explosion and mathematical odds with hundreds of zeros after the decimal point and before a real number for even single celled bacteria, will put some of that into better perspective for any of yaâ??ll who havenâ??t.

I salute the good things that organized religion has provided, which have served to bind civilization together under a moral code.

I reject and abhor that the name of the creator has been dirtied and sullied by the mind of man and used to justify genocide. I also reject attempts at proselytizing me, because I know Iâ??m right.

One old manâ??s opinion and given my limited years left, it wonâ??t be all that long until I find out for sure.

GW

PS: My creator gave the fox and hare everything they needed to win, but is indifferent to which one does.

I can see that you are wise, and know we are all part of the whole.

It is refreshing to read words of one whose mind has not been clouded by dogma.

Hopefully, in your remaining days, the creator will give you a gift of more wisdom. Hopefully you will be able to share it before you leave this state of being. :rastasmoke:

pepurr Reviewed by pepurr on 04-02-2010. Philosophy of Religion Today in my phil of religion class, my professor posed a simple question: Is it rational to believe in God? Me, I say no. Since rationality is a product of rules of the human mind, and since God exceeds the limits of the human mind, then God also exceeds rationality. Give your opinion and back it up with a logical argument. Rating: 5

[JohnnyZ]

johnny- you should have first asked your professor to define his concept of god before stepping into such a ludicrous discussion.

Sorry guys, I should have defined God. In class we generally use the "supreme being" image of God, an omnipotent and omniscient creator. Basically, just a big dude up in the sky.

To have faith in the existence of god, one must refute logic and reason IMHO.

Indeed sir.

pepurr, I agree with many of the things you said about how God is all and we are all. The further science breaks everything down, we see that we are nothing but little bits of energy held together by an electro-magnetic field. So we are all, and we are all nothing.

I don't know how far any of you have delved into psychedelics, but once you have experienced ego-death, you tend to see the universe in a whole different light. Psychedelics are only dangerous because they hold the ability to give you comprehension of infinity. A lot of people can't handle that. Me, I loved it

Have any of you heard of the "thumbprint"? Perhaps some of you older dudes toured with the 'Dead back in the day.

[pepurr]

I don't know how far any of you have delved into psychedelics, but once you have experienced ego-death, you tend to see the universe in a whole different light. Psychedelics are only dangerous because they hold the ability to give you comprehension of infinity. A lot of people can't handle that. Me, I loved it

Have any of you heard of the "thumbprint"? Perhaps some of you older dudes toured with the 'Dead back in the day.

I think that is the biggest stumbling block for people. They are not able to comprehend the infinite. The infinitely small or the infinitely large. When they do think they understand, they place themselves some where in the middle. They do not understand that there is no middle.

I was never a huge fan of the Dead, but I did do a lot of acid. I haven't done any for many, many years now. I doubt I ever will again.

There are some who believe all religious faiths started with some one who ate a mushroom. Sort of like looking at the crescent moon and seeing the smile of the cheshire cat.

They can't fool us. We know the moon is really made of green cheese.

Before mankind can truly throw off the chains of ignorance, they must embrace the infinite.

[BlueBlazer]

Have any of you heard of the "thumbprint"? Perhaps some of you older dudes toured with the 'Dead back in the day.

I'm not a huge Dead fan either, but I've heard of thumbprinting. It was always star blotter for me back in the day. :hippy:

Be careful with psychedelics Johnny. They expand your mind, but they also open it to someone who may use that against you. You think they are harmless until someone with a evil need to dominate romps around in your grey matter while you're tripping. . . . End of sermon.

[pepurr]

I agree BlueBlazer. Back when I was doing 4 way windowpain, I always tripped with people I knew and trusted. Some people get a kick out of doing a mind fuck.

I always thought mushrooms were the best. I grew up in Florida and mushrooms there were as easy to find as going to the nearest cow pie. Smooth, mellow trip.

[JohnnyZ]

Thank you Blue. You are a kind and wise man. I have a friend who is as interested as I am in this subject. Both of us have been doing quite a lot of research into LSD. From Hofmann to Leary, it's psychological potentials, it's downfall, and everything in between. We are both experienced with mushrooms, but still him and I agreed that we would not do LSD until we found a pure source. A little poking around in the drug scene here has told me that a lot of the stuff floating around is low grade garbage that is bad for the mind and body. It's like the mexican ditch weed of acid.

I know it is all about setting. A day out in the provincial park here is a tripper's paradise.

Also, being a member on shroomery.org provides incredible information. This fall will mark my first grow

[BlueBlazer]

Thank you Blue. You are a kind and wise man.

You're welcome.

Now can I get you to tell that to my wife?

As long as you are well educated and knowledgeable, that's half the battle. The other half is to ensure you limit your contact to folks you know well and trust and be prepared for more than a day "out of commission".

[JohnnyZ]

I love my friends man, I know they would never hurt me when I am vulnerable. However, they might when I am drunk and trying to make fun of them

pepurr I must ask you what you think of the devine simplicity argument for God, as it seems somewhat contingent with what you have said.

Godâ??s existence is absolutely simple, without combinations or additions of any kind. All perfections are found in Him in a perfectly simple manner. However, God does not entail separate domains â?? even though in truth there exist in God qualities which, within us, are separateâ?¦ Indeed the true nature of His essence is that it is a single attribute, (yet) one that intrinsically encompasses everything that could be considered perfection. All perfection therefore exists in God, not as something added on to His existence, but as an integral part of His intrinsic identityâ?¦ This is a concept that is very far from our ability to grasp and imagineâ?¦

[pepurr]

pepurr I must ask you what you think of the devine simplicity argument for God, as it seems somewhat contingent with what you have said.

Originally Posted by Moshe Chaim Luzzatto
Godâ??s existence is absolutely simple, without combinations or additions of any kind. All perfections are found in Him in a perfectly simple manner. However, God does not entail separate domains â?? even though in truth there exist in God qualities which, within us, are separateâ?¦ Indeed the true nature of His essence is that it is a single attribute, (yet) one that intrinsically encompasses everything that could be considered perfection. All perfection therefore exists in God, not as something added on to His existence, but as an integral part of His intrinsic identityâ?¦ This is a concept that is very far from our ability to grasp and imagineâ?¦

I feel it is a good start. I agree, "All perfections are found in Him in a perfectly simple manner. ", that is one of the reasons Jesus said:

Matthew 19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

Yet understanding is still lacking because, not only does God encompasses everything that is considered perfect, but all things considered imperfect. Just because we see something as imperfect does not make it so. To what standard do we measure? We measure by our own standard, which was born of incomplete knowledge. So, if it exists it is perfect because God made it and it is a part of God. Nothing about God can be considered imperfect.

An example of man's lack of understanding of this can be found in this. It is said of some ground that it is holy. I say all ground is holy because God made it, and it is in God, and he in it. That supposed holy ground may hold special meaning to man, but this is because man gives it special meaning. No ground or place is more holy than another, no thing is more perfect than another.

Truly, "God does not entail separate domains". All domains are of God, and in God, and he in them. To us there are many domains. To god there is only one domain.

People over complicate things. People love ceremony. People add things to the requirements of righteousness, and for entry into heaven, that are not required. Doing so they are giving God the attributes of man.

How is this so? Some people will tell you that you must be baptized in water, be it submerged or sprinkled, to enter into heaven. They are adding a ceremony that is not needed. They misunderstand what Jesus was telling them.

John 4:14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

The water Jesus gave was the water of truth and understanding. I really believe Jesus understood God in a way never understood by man before.

So even though there are good intentions in being baptized, doing that does not make one more saved or righteous. Any one can hold something in their hands and still not understand it.

[JohnnyZ]

People love ceremony.

So true bro. That is such an issue in our world. Especially in the Canadian parliamentary system, they waste important time with all the pomp and circumstance. And for what, to make them seem above society? They forget that they are our servants, not the other way around. Democracy has turned sour.

Also, I hate how God is always He. I would love to see equality already in this world, it's long overdue. I can't stand feminists though.

I like what you are getting at with God's all-encompassing nature. From my ego-loss experiences, I can say with much certainty that there is a force behind everything.

The question now is, is it possible to give that force a name? Something we don't understand? Do we even comprehend perfection?

I think not.