Tea Bag Socialists

[delusionsofNORMALity]

If I made a million bucks a years, I'd have no problem giving up 50%. but that's just me.

exercising the personal choice to donate your earnings to worthwhile endeavors is one thing. being forced to hand over those earnings to the political animals of government, so that they can curry favor with their constituents after taking a sizeable chunk as a "handling fee", is another matter entirely. being forced to invest in a pyramid scheme retirement plan that is regularly raided by those same political animals for their pet projects and sorry attempts at social engineering runs contrary to the concept of individual liberty. being forced by government agency to part with what you have earned because of the envy of those who have less than you, for whatever reasons, is antithetical to the notion of a free society. the confiscation of the personal property of the few in order to prop up the failings of the welfare state is theft, plain and simple.

the problem with your version of parity is that it denies individual choice and places the state in the position of deciding how much is enough. you may be willing to part with half of your earnings to aid your neighbors, someone else may decide that a quarter of their worth is donation enough, and another may feel that giving everything but what is needed for their own survival is the least they can do for their fellow man. that is the individual's prerogative and the nature of charity. what the liberal establishment proposes is the replacement of individual charity and personal responsibility with the government mandated redistribution of wealth. placing the onus of supporting society on the successful few interferes with their rights to personal property and enables government and the mob it controls to interfere with the rights of all men. perhaps you don't feel that the rights of the wealthy are worth protecting. perhaps you feel that their success makes them less worthy of liberty than those of us who scrabble for our existence. perhaps you are perfectly happy with the thought of the successful being made slaves to the mob.

[killerweed420]

"i'd say you haven't the faintest idea what the term "flat tax" means. what you describe is the progressive taxation that penalizes success, inhibiting growth for the sake of some illusory concept of "fairness". while you may deny it, what you are really saying is "steal from the rich to give to the poor" and your reasoning is based on the same tired rhetoric of envy that all of modern liberalism is based on. you equate the accumulation of wealth with evil and seem to see some inherent nobility in poverty."

The problem with that statement is you are assuming people that make millions do so ethically. Very far from the truth. No one makes that kind of money who aren't either screwing there employees, screwing there customers or doing both.
Thats why I too favor the gradiated flat tax. No one needs a million dollars a year to live comfortably. I'm against taxing businesses because that just drives up the price of products for us consumers. All of this would probably be irrelevant if we just had some sort of control over congressional spending. If we could get congress to quit pissing money away on worthless programs there would probably plenty of money to go around.

[gypski]

I also disagree with the notion that the nation's natural resources are there for the taking by any private individual. The Mining Law of 1876 is so fucking out dated with the royalty structure, and non-payment of royalties by the extractors stiffing the government. Its insane to allow private companies to buy the American people's land (public trust) for $5.00 stinking dollars an acre. Or pay a lease fee of $2.50 and acre and turn around and screw us when it comes to energy and payment of royalties. The nation has lost trillions. That is one law that has sorely been needed to change for nearly a 100 years and congress still won't act to change it. Individual states, like Alaska, pay a portion to their people. Nationally neither the people or the government get their fair share.

And I agree will KillerWeed on the notion that robber CEOs and corporations rape the people. Not one of them are worth what they get paid to destroy the infrastructure. Its not only obscene, its totally unAmerican. :twocents: more to the kitty.

[gypski]

And example of one of the robber barons and his philosophy. In one sense it makes sense if I actually applied. In a service economy it boils down to chicken feed. But then Morgan made his fortune screwing many along the way. :twocents:

John Pierpont Morgan (1837-1913), who founded an industrial empire and worked as a financier at the bank which today has become part of JPMorgan Chase, believed the desirable top-to-bottom salary gap in any company should be twenty-to-one.

Since JPMorgan's CEO and chairman, Jamie Dimon, stands to pocket more than 17 million dollars in 2009, that would mean the lowest salary at his bank should be fixed at 850,000 dollars, according to the bank's founding father.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

The problem with that statement is you are assuming people that make millions do so ethically. Very far from the truth. No one makes that kind of money who aren't either screwing there employees, screwing there customers or doing both.

I agree will KillerWeed on the notion that robber CEOs and corporations rape the people. Not one of them are worth what they get paid to destroy the infrastructure.

you two are both so typical of what is wrong with modern liberal thought that it's almost scary. equating success with evil is the product of a culture of entitlement and the envy of the have nots of those who may very well have earned every bit of their wealth. taking isolated anecdotal evidence as proof of an endemic criminal tendency has fed the mob's undirected rage and turned it against the very entities that provide them with a means to survive and flourish. the foolish notion that business is bad and that only government can save us from such evil denies that business is made up of the people and that it is government that has set itself up as judge and jury, deciding what our labors are worth instead of leaving that up to the marketplace.

this strange idea that wealth is evil and its creation a sign of ill intent dooms us to an inevitable mediocrity. as citizens of one of the world's wealthiest nations, we should be particularly aware that it is only the concentration on the material at the expense of all else that is evil. it is wealth that enables charity and the very innovation that has created products and services that have saved countless lives and alleviated the suffering of millions. it certainly isn't our altruistic nature that has led the u.s. to become the single most charitable nation on the planet. it is the freedom that such wealth engenders and the leisure it affords that has bred any greatness this country may have attained. belittling that wealth by demonizing its creators and demanding that the state rein in the entrepreneur leads us down the path toward the abolition of the individual.

you seem to forget that it is government that hires armed thugs to force the common man to submit to its will, that enforces conformity under penalty of violence and demands obedience to its every whim. where private industry may offer up any commodity at any cost, a free marketplace also allows for competition and the destruction of unfavorable business practices by an aware consumer base. while it is only with the collusion of authorities that any business may force consumers to use an unwanted product, government has no such safeguards. there is no recourse to the will of the state. the lie of the ballot box may have deluded the masses into believing that they have some control over their representatives, but the evidence to the contrary is undeniable. by demanding that government restrict businesses where we should be using the marketplace as a tool of control, we cede our liberties to the whims of a political elite that we ourselves have created and continue to enable.

[cannabis=freedom]

Long live socialism in the untainted splendour of its lofty ideal, as yet unrealized...that's all I can say at the moment. Politics have seemed to me lately even more of a twisted mess of garbage that I'd be better off ignoring for poetry and sunsets. I will say, though, that I'm very pleased the U.S. has finally reformed its awful system and people hopefully won't be bankrupted by long illnesses anymore.

Delusions, I have a strong feeling in my soul that business and government are alike evil, and that as to American charity, I cite that passage in Wuthering Heights about 'don't raze my palace, erect a hovel and praise your own charity.' Charity usually has other motives, too (at least on the state level), whether for leverage, a good face, or what have you. If asked whether I'd rather be under business or government, I would answer a resounding 'neither.' I can't believe that any huge institution donates out of the goodness of their collective hearts.

[killerweed420]

you two are both so typical of what is wrong with modern liberal thought that it's almost scary. equating success with evil is the product of a culture of entitlement and the envy of the have nots of those who may very well have earned every bit of their wealth. taking isolated anecdotal evidence as proof of an endemic criminal tendency has fed the mob's undirected rage and turned it against the very entities that provide them with a means to survive and flourish. the foolish notion that business is bad and that only government can save us from such evil denies that business is made up of the people and that it is government that has set itself up as judge and jury, deciding what our labors are worth instead of leaving that up to the marketplace.


this strange idea that wealth is evil and its creation a sign of ill intent dooms us to an inevitable mediocrity. as citizens of one of the world's wealthiest nations, we should be particularly aware that it is only the concentration on the material at the expense of all else that is evil. it is wealth that enables charity and the very innovation that has created products and services that have saved countless lives and alleviated the suffering of millions. it certainly isn't our altruistic nature that has led the u.s. to become the single most charitable nation on the planet. it is the freedom that such wealth engenders and the leisure it affords that has bred any greatness this country may have attained. belittling that wealth by demonizing its creators and demanding that the state rein in the entrepreneur leads us down the path toward the abolition of the individual.

you seem to forget that it is government that hires armed thugs to force the common man to submit to its will, that enforces conformity under penalty of violence and demands obedience to its every whim. where private industry may offer up any commodity at any cost, a free marketplace also allows for competition and the destruction of unfavorable business practices by an aware consumer base. while it is only with the collusion of authorities that any business may force consumers to use an unwanted product, government has no such safeguards. there is no recourse to the will of the state. the lie of the ballot box may have deluded the masses into believing that they have some control over their representatives, but the evidence to the contrary is undeniable. by demanding that government restrict businesses where we should be using the marketplace as a tool of control, we cede our liberties to the whims of a political elite that we ourselves have created and continue to enable.

Too begin with I'm not a liberal but am what used to be called a compassionate conservative. Where that now means you have 2 gods, Yahweh and manna, I believe in neither. So I don't use that term any more. I'm just a libertarian that believes in the constitution and bill of rights as they were originally entended. I see no reason why conservatives can't help there fellow man as liberals should. I just have a different version of how that should be done. It should never be done with government mandates as that is hollow. It should be done by people from there hearts with no intention of ever receiving anything in return.

[Islandborn]

awww, so sorry....the libs are scared of the tea parties now....whats next? Jahova's Witness? I would hate to live my life in fear.

Thankfully, the majority actually think the teaparties are better equipped to handle the issues than congress can. Polls are fun.

Most Say Tea Party Has Better Understanding of Issues than Congress - Rasmussen Reportsâ?¢

And Obama's fiscal idiot ass dropped another 2 points today....man....what a opposition "waterloo" that Obamacare was LMAO.....Dems are done.
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval

That supposedly idiot filled group of "teabaggers" is kicking the crap outta the left and any UNION FUNDED protests they can scrub together.

[gypski]

awww, so sorry....the libs are scared of the tea parties now....whats next? Jahova's Witness? I would hate to live my life in fear.

Thankfully, the majority actually think the teaparties are better equipped to handle the issues than congress can. Polls are fun.

Most Say Tea Party Has Better Understanding of Issues than Congress - Rasmussen Reportsâ?¢

And Obama's fiscal idiot ass dropped another 2 points today....man....what a opposition "waterloo" that Obamacare was LMAO.....Dems are done.
Gallup Daily: Obama Job Approval

That supposedly idiot filled group of "teabaggers" is kicking the crap outta the left and any UNION FUNDED protests they can scrub together.

:S2: Is all I can say. Afraid of the Tea Party!!!! :S2:

[boaz]

....whats next? Jahova's Witness? ...
...

they came out to our farm once when I was a kid and I remember my dad sat down with them out on the front porch and told them all about his interpretation of the bible and proceeded to blow the f'n minds. :jointsmile: they never came back to the farm again.