Canoeing/Clawed leaves

[Faddenator]

I thought canoe shaped leaves were caused by over watering, but if I try and let the soil dry out the plant starts to droop pretty bad- The clawing wasn't too bad at first but now they're upside down... Its only happening to the smaller leaves, perhaps its lack of light? It only recently became a problem though and the lighting situation has not changed.

Despite all this they are still flowering nicely.

What else can cause canoed/clawed leaves?

Thanks

Faddenator Reviewed by Faddenator on 02-02-2010. Canoeing/Clawed leaves I thought canoe shaped leaves were caused by over watering, but if I try and let the soil dry out the plant starts to droop pretty bad- The clawing wasn't too bad at first but now they're upside down... :( Its only happening to the smaller leaves, perhaps its lack of light? It only recently became a problem though and the lighting situation has not changed. Despite all this they are still flowering nicely. What else can cause canoed/clawed leaves? Thanks Rating: 5

[bigtopsfinn]

Can't really even take a guess without the bigger picture of the situation. Maybe someone more experienced with this can chime in... but even they can't help you without, you guessed it , the troubleshooting form :thumbsup:

And try to get some pics up, I don't really understand how they are clawing and canoeing at the same time, and upside down??? :jointsmile:

[Faddenator]

What is your experience level? beginner

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. CFL's: 4x27W, 1x42W - Tube Flourescents: 2x32W (4ft)
.2) Distance from tops? CFLS are surrounding the plants, all within 1-2" of leaves/tops. Tube Flourescents are about 6 inches above all the plants.
.3) Reflector type? Flat White Standard Shoplight reflector on the tube flourecents, Space Blankets for reflectivity on the CFL's.
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? It is in a box with an open top, in a large closet (5x10) with no door. So yes I believe there is fresh air.
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? CFL's: 4x27W (2700k), 1x42W (2700k)- Tube Flourescents: 2x32W (6500k) --- All light are on 12/12 light cycle

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, and anything you've added to it. Miracle Gro Potting mix cut with Scott's Premium potting soil and about 25% MG perlite
.8) Size of container. 10 liter (approximately 2.8 gallons)
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? No, I used the plastic bag method of germination, and simply planted them.

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting? Tap water, approx. 7.0 ph
11) Method of checking water ph. Test strips (not the best I know)
12) Method of adjusting water ph. No Ph adjustment used
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. Shultz Liquid Plant Food (10-15-10) and Miracle Gro All purpose plant food (not sure of NPK) Feeding every other watering (about 6 days) with a 25% strength solution of EACH brand (making a 50% strength solution)
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? watering once in between feedings, watering until run off starts (approximately half gallon per plant)
15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...) No additives
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? Fluctuate slightly when feeding
17) What is your ingoing water's ph?7.0 ...your runoff ph? about 6.5
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? No, only water feed

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors Indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? 5'x10' closet, in a 2'x4' box
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? Lights on: 75*F Low humidity - Lights off: 70-72*F Low humidity
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No insect whatsoever.

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Both
24) From seeds or clones? Seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? No

I was hoping I wouldnt have to do this again haha. oh well.
So what's the deal with the curling? I added a few pictures- note that the outer/larger fan leaves are fine. Thanks in advance everyone!

[bigtopsfinn]

Check the roots, that 10L might be too small for them at this point. This happened to me my first time. If you don't have bigger pots, you can 'cake stack' by filling in old pot with 1/3-1/2 way with fresh soil and then putting the plant back in, then filling in the sides.

Other than that, I can't see anything else which would be the problem. Maybe someone else?

[spacemyface]

Hey Faddenator, ever figure this out? I'm having the same trouble..

[Faddenator]

Hey Faddenator, ever figure this out? I'm having the same trouble..

I never completely figured it out, my roots looks like they have plenty of space. I did perform a hefty flush, and that helped a little, but not much. I don't think the leaves are ever going to straighten out.

However, growth is still happening at a good rate. She just starting developing trichs yesterday I guess I would try flushing if your roots aren't the problem. Maybe it will help yours more than it did mine.

[spacemyface]

Hmm, So are growing in a 2'x4' cab? I'm growing in a cabinet also, I'm wondering if its that there not getting enough O2?

[rebelbhoy]

One of my 8 plants are showing the same symptoms. And like yours is still producing trichs.

I would say it has produced the most trichs out of all my girls.
:rastasmoke:

[Rusty Trichome]

Stick your hand between the bulbs and the plant. If you can keep it there without getting too warm, temps are likely ok. You have a fan and fresh air on 'em?

Too much nutes, and wayyyyyoverwatering. Miracle Grow All Purpose has dosages listed for a two week period. (at least they used to when I was still using it) What is the specific MG nutrient you mention, and it's N-P-K, and it's listed schedule?

Cannabis grows best on a wet/dry cycle. If not letting the soil dry-out, you risk a myriad of problems. I'd wait till soil is dried-out a tad and carefully slip the rootball out of the container to check root growth. Should be nothing but healthy white roots.

Mixing products from different companies is not recommended. Different companies put different levels of each nutrients, micronutrients and heavy metals into their formula's. Very easy to overdose without going past the N-P-K limits. N-P-K could still be in range, but combining the different company's nutes can double or tripple-up on the micros and metals...Pick a winner and stick with it. :thumbsup: I recommend the easy to master Fox Farms trio pack. No company affiliation, I've just been using the stuff for quite a few years.

With my 3 gallon plants, I feed 'em 2 times a week. Monday and Thursday.
I mix the nutes half-strength, and give my 3 gallon flowering ladies about a quart of that solution each feeding. During the winter, if I do need to water inbetween, I'll add a quart of clean, properly ph'd water to last to next feeding day. During the summer months I often have to water daily. (I live in the desert)

[Faddenator]

Stick your hand between the bulbs and the plant. If you can keep it there without getting too warm, temps are likely ok. You have a fan and fresh air on 'em?

Too much nutes, and wayyyyyoverwatering. Miracle Grow All Purpose has dosages listed for a two week period. (at least they used to when I was still using it) What is the specific MG nutrient you mention, and it's N-P-K, and it's listed schedule?

Cannabis grows best on a wet/dry cycle. If not letting the soil dry-out, you risk a myriad of problems. I'd wait till soil is dried-out a tad and carefully slip the rootball out of the container to check root growth. Should be nothing but healthy white roots.

Mixing products from different companies is not recommended. Different companies put different levels of each nutrients, micronutrients and heavy metals into their formula's. Very easy to overdose without going past the N-P-K limits. N-P-K could still be in range, but combining the different company's nutes can double or tripple-up on the micros and metals...Pick a winner and stick with it. :thumbsup: I recommend the easy to master Fox Farms trio pack. No company affiliation, I've just been using the stuff for quite a few years.

With my 3 gallon plants, I feed 'em 2 times a week. Monday and Thursday.
I mix the nutes half-strength, and give my 3 gallon flowering ladies about a quart of that solution each feeding. During the winter, if I do need to water inbetween, I'll add a quart of clean, properly ph'd water to last to next feeding day. During the summer months I often have to water daily. (I live in the desert)

You sure about the over watering? I only water every three days, and I feed every other watering... I've never used over a 50% strength solution on THIS plant, I have on a couple other showing deficiencies...

I should also add that If I water less frequently than this the plant starts to droop heavily and all the fan leaf stems get 'rubbery' and just flop around.

The NPK of the MG is 15-20-15, the Schultz is 15-30-15. The general rule is a little more N for veg, and a little more P for flower, correct? So I guess I should stick with the schultz?

The roots have been checked recently and are white and healthy & not bound, In fact it looks like they have plenty of space. Like I said, I always cycle my waterings.

I've also already decided I'm not attempting another grow until I do some hefty equipment upgrades. My plan is for a 400W MH/HPS system using the Fox Farm Trio. A few steps up from MG and CFL's. Obviously I will make space renovations to accommodate for the new equipment. I will also be meticulously logging it.

So now that you're filled in, do you think its just the nute mixing thats doing it? Or you still think I'm over watering? Thanks as usual, Rusty :jointsmile: