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  1.     
    #1
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Hey guys,

    So, there's going to be some clones getting planted in the next 2 days. I've done A LOT of research lately on here, a couple other forums, and of course a quick skimming of The Indoor Grower's Bible. I've been doing my research but I've got a lot to learn.

    So, onto my question. A little background information on growing medium... it will be Fox Farms Ocean Forest 80%, Perlite 20%... and possibly a small dose of lime (1 TBSP per gallon). I've seen differing viewpoints on the dolomite lime, but I think if I add a smaller than recommended dose (2 TBSP per gallon) I should be OK. My understanding is that it's very hard to overdose on the Dolomite lime.... it won't buffer any higher than pH 7.0. I also see that Fox Farms soil is at like 6.3 - 6.5 or something. I understand a target pH in soild should be right in this range, about 6.3 - 6.8? So, I'm wondering what pH should I adjust to for my regular waterings?? 7.0 to be neutral.... or 6.5 to aim for the target? I'm a little unclear on this. I assume I don't want to water with pH above 7.0... seems pretty clear.

    Also, I haven't tested my tap water, which is what I'll be using (after a 24-48 chlorine evap/temp stabilization period). So, I'm guessing if it's above 7.0 I'll need some pH Down? What do I want to set my pH to for regular waterings? What about when I start adding nutes?

    Finally, what tests should I run on my tap water besides pH? I know I need to test the hardness/TDS. What is a good way to do this? I know my municipality probably publishes these parameters coming out of the Water Treatment plant, but it's probably more accurate to test after it's been through the distribution system and entered your home. Also, I've seen some discussion of "E.C." on other forums... What is this? Electrical conductivity? Doesn't make sense.... something else?

    Oh yeah, I don't plan on adding ANY nutrients until maybe week 3-4. Then during flowering I plan on feeding MINIMALLY with Dyna Grow all-around bloom mix (or possibly fox farm... just want to get one all around flowering fertilizer that will cover all macro/micro nutes)...

    Shit, I know this is a lot of questions, but it seems like this is where people run into a lot of problems. If you have your environment locked down with light/temps/ventilation then this seems to be like the most finicky aspect to growing.

    Any help is MUCH appreciated?
    lampost Reviewed by lampost on . First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)? Hey guys, So, there's going to be some clones getting planted in the next 2 days. I've done A LOT of research lately on here, a couple other forums, and of course a quick skimming of The Indoor Grower's Bible. I've been doing my research but I've got a lot to learn. So, onto my question. A little background information on growing medium... it will be Fox Farms Ocean Forest 80%, Perlite 20%... and possibly a small dose of lime (1 TBSP per gallon). I've seen differing viewpoints on the Rating: 5
    Brown-eyed women and red grenadine...
    :s4::s4::s4:

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  3.     
    #2
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    I am no expert but watering with 7.0 should be perfect unless you test your runoff and it's way too low. It's a balancing act. I wouldn't worry about the lime, just add the 2 Tbsp per and forget it. If you have enough decent soil you don't need to add anything.

    Sounds like you have a plan.
    Think of your buds like chocolate chip cookies: some people like em crunchy and some people like em chewy. Personally, I want them tanned golden brown but not crispy....and no one likes cold raw dough in the middle of their cookie.

  4.     
    #3
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Straight ocean forest? I have good luck with a mixture of pro-mix hp and ocean forest. 2 bags ocean forest to 1 bale of pro mix. Less expensive and with the pro mix being neutral, adding the OF sets a little buffer and provides minimal nutrients for the first 2 weeks of veg. I like to control the nute levels myself and straight OF is packed with nutes. As far as your water goes, do you have an EC meter? Testing the hardness of water is ez with one.. stick it in your water and see what the ppm's are.. my water doesn't even register a reading so i know its "soft". ALWAYS ph your water AFTER you add nutrients to it (duh).
    If youre going to use fox farm nutes, the FF schedule is a little too hot so I cut it in half in first month and progress to full by the 7th week of flower,i.e.. 5 gallon bucket of water gets a 2 gallon dose, then 3 then 4 then full... a full dose of week 6, 7, and 8 is only about 980 ppm due to no grow big in there.. grow big adds big ppm's to your mix. Add nutes to water, use truncheon to check ppm's, add more nutes or more water depending on strength you want to feed them, then ph to 6.5 and feed every other watering. Feed, water, feed , water... strain dependent of course.

    Initially the cost of the hardware is quite high but you will thank yourself for spending the money.. i did and my first grow was a smashing success. EC meter ( truncheon) is about $140 and digital ph meter is about $80. These 2 things take all the guess work out of your water and nutrient levels.
    if you going to go bear, then go grizzly.... spend the money now to avoid problems later. Growing tomatoes is ez once you control the ph.
    BTW, using the pro mix ,ocean forest blend... you wont need to add perlite or anything.

    peace.

  5.     
    #4
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Quote Originally Posted by lampost
    it will be Fox Farms Ocean Forest 80%, Perlite 20%... and possibly a small dose of lime.
    I like the idea of the lime. Seems like cheap insurance. Mixed well, it certainly does no harm. :thumbsup:

    Quote Originally Posted by lampost
    I also see that Fox Farms soil is at like 6.3 - 6.5 or something. I understand a target pH in soild should be right in this range, about 6.3 - 6.8? So, I'm wondering what pH should I adjust to for my regular waterings?? 7.0 to be neutral.... or 6.5 to aim for the target?
    You're right-on with the pH of the FFOF. My own and the local aggie school test put it at 6.5.
    I've ph'd every feeding/watering to 6.5 and have not seen any problems. This is my first time with the FFOF. Mine is mixed similar to what you state. I added vermiculite, none needed! :i feel stupid:

    Quote Originally Posted by lampost
    Also, I haven't tested my tap water, which is what I'll be using (after a 24-48 chlorine evap/temp stabilization period). So, I'm guessing if it's above 7.0 I'll need some pH Down? What do I want to set my pH to for regular waterings? What about when I start adding nutes?
    You should have both on hand IMO (pH up + down). Depends on your starting water pH and choice of Nutrients. For example, starting with pH7.2 water, the FF nutes I'm using will drop the pH way down. I need to add pH Up.

    Quote Originally Posted by lampost
    Oh yeah, I don't plan on adding ANY nutrients until maybe week 3-4. Then during flowering I plan on feeding MINIMALLY
    Your set nute-wise for a month with the FFOF! For sure.
    Can't help much on the feeding, I'm only using the FF stuff for the first time myself. No complaints, the girls are lapping it up full strength, but the jury's out 'till the curtain falls.

    HTH

  6.     
    #5
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Quote Originally Posted by lampost
    it will be Fox Farms Ocean Forest 80%, Perlite 20%... and possibly a small dose of lime (1 TBSP per gallon). I've seen differing viewpoints on the dolomite lime,
    IMO, you do not want your pH "stabilized" too effectively. Different nutrients are absorbed at different soil pH (check out one of the many tables/graphs floating around on that subject). Let pH drift a bit, instead of fighting to keep it rock-solid.

    I understand a target pH in soil should be right in this range, about 6.3 - 6.8?
    It's strain dependent, somewhat, but I like it generally from ~5.8-6.3. Swings from ~5.5-6.5 have not caused me any problems. I'm talking about pH in the pot here, which is what you should be concerned with.

    Here's how I do it: When I feed or water, I adjust the pH of my solution to roughly where I want the pot to be. (Let's say, 6.0.) If I put in solution at 6.0 and it runs out the bottom of the pot at 5.8, that means the pH of my soil is even lower than 5.8, to knock the pH down that far. What then, exactly, is the soil pH? I dunno, you just guesstimate it. The longer (and faster) you keep pouring solution through your medium, the closer your runoff pH will correspond to your solution pH. Keep in mind that doing this rinses nutes outta the soil. Your "hot" FFOF can be tamed very easily doing this; dunno why everybody makes a big deal out of it. (You can get soil pH testers but I've never found a cheapie that worked right.) Basically, I fine-tune the pH of the ingoing solution as I watch what's coming out of the pot. Just keep nudging it toward your target soil pH value; radical pH correction is risky. And don't let a little pH drift freak you out, it's a good thing...:thumbsup


    So, I'm wondering what pH should I adjust to for my regular waterings?? 7.0 to be neutral.... or 6.5 to aim for the target? Aim roughly at the target and see how far your existing soil pH deflects it.

    I'm a little unclear on this. I assume I don't want to water with pH above 7.0... seems pretty clear.I've seen recommendations that water / solution should be within +-1.0 of target value, and within +-1.0 of existing conditions to avoid shocking the plant. Seems reasonable, has worked for me.

    Also, I haven't tested my tap water, which is what I'll be using (after a 24-48 chlorine evap/temp stabilization period). If you feel the need to do this be sure to re-oxygenate the water--you've let the dissolved O2 escape.

    So, I'm guessing if it's above 7.0 I'll need some pH Down? Possibly. Both FF and Dyna soil nutes may drop the pH pretty near where you need it. Fine tune with pH up/down. If you're just watering (no nutes) a little pH down will do the trick.

    What do I want to set my pH to for regular waterings? Set it to work with your soil pH, to steer the soil pH toward where you want it. As long as there's a plant living in it, the soil conditions are going to change constantly. Try to fall into rhythm with the swings instead of fighting to absolutely stabilize your pH. (IMO )

    What about when I start adding nutes? The nutes you've mentioned will help lower pH, and also help stabilize things a bit.

    I know I need to test the hardness/TDS. What is a good way to do this? With an EC (ppm/TDS) meter.

    I know my municipality probably publishes these parameters Check them, if available.

    Also, I've seen some discussion of "E.C." on other forums... What is this? Electrical conductivity? Yep. Salts (ferts) make the solution conduct electricity better. That's what a "ppm" or "TDS" meter is actually measuring: the electrical conductivity of the solution. What confuses lotsa folks is that different salts conduct electricity differently, so there are different conversion ratios to convert the EC to an ESTIMATED ppm (Parts Per Million of Total Dissolved Solids), depending on what salt they think you might be measuring. Thatsa good Google one, there....

    Then during flowering I plan on feeding MINIMALLY with Dyna Grow all-around bloom mix (or possibly fox farm... just want to get one all around flowering fertilizer that will cover all macro/micro nutes)... FF makes a micro product that seems designed to replenish all the organic worm poop, bat poop, etc. that's in fresh Ocean Forest soil. Can't think of the name ATM.

    HTH, I'll check on that FF amendment, it's a real popular one...Hermie
    Need advice wth plant problems?
    Use this form:
    http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ing-forms.html

  7.     
    #6
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Big Bloom, it's their micro nutrient product, it's in every week's feedings on their schedule except for the week you switch your lights to 12/12.

  8.     
    #7
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    "Big Bloom" is the micro booster from FF. It did seem to help a bit, but I've had good results in soil using only Tiger Bloom for flower, with no additional amendments.

    Have you thought about growing in coco? It looks like soil, but you use hydro nutes and you can't overwater it. I love it! :thumbsup:
    Need advice wth plant problems?
    Use this form:
    http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ing-forms.html

  9.     
    #8
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Redtails beat me to it.
    Need advice wth plant problems?
    Use this form:
    http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ing-forms.html

  10.     
    #9
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    You guys are faaar more helpful than I am :0 I'm gonna stick to lurking

  11.     
    #10
    Senior Member

    First grow... Water quality questions (pH, TDS, Hardness)?

    Quote Originally Posted by perpetr8r
    You guys are faaar more helpful than I am :0 I'm gonna stick to lurking
    I thought all your advice was good. :thumbsup:

    Very good, in fact. :hippy: Rep to ya....
    Need advice wth plant problems?
    Use this form:
    http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...ing-forms.html

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