The economics of MMJ?

[starter09]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

starter09 Reviewed by starter09 on 12-31-2009. The economics of MMJ? Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains. Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast. Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no Rating: 5

[FarmerSteve]

There's no doubt that I will be growing my own soon. I want to. I don't care how hard it is, I'll learn. What's life about if it isn't about learning? Along the way, I will go to the 4 or 5 dispensaries that seemingly bring the top of the line goods, and that will keep me medicated and happy until my 1st crop comes in, not to mention I want to figure out what I want to grow and where better to figure that out than to test the best that I can find right now. That's part of the reason that I am SO enthused about CCF and some of Bryan's strains. It's not every day you literally fall in love with a strain.

And even if my buds aren't the tightest right off the bat, they'll get the job done at a FRACTION of the price, and as was said, I'll have all of this trim and such to make edibles, which I LOVE, and hash, which I hope to love. :stoned:

I don't knock ANY of these guys, even the ones selling bunk, but that doesn't mean that I want to stay at the mercy of ANY other person for my meds. :thumbsup:

[Dietblonde]

Nice! Those poor pot dealers...such hard work for chicken feed! $134k a year, though...that is a ton of money and its tax free! I know its intensive and a lot of stress, but it ain't even hard labor! You get to work indoors, be high on the job, and be your own boss. I spent all last year on an oil rig in northern North Dakota in subzero temperatures working 12 hour days getting my body banged up for not even half the profit. Show's how dumb I've been.

$30,000 to start a commercial grow op? That does seem a little high.

[justinsane33]

we should start a giant commune for mmj. like the sixties. just live up there and sell the cannabis for a job. could have some sweet prices if it's filled with talented growers that care about the movement. i could sweep or answer the phone or something.

[redtails]

Yeah the dispensaries charge street market prices, sometimes even more & that's just plain "uncompassionate care"...It really doesn't cost much to grow. Take an initial investment of $500-2000 for equipment/seeds & $25-125 a month in utilities & you can supply 1-10 people for a while depending on need...and they're charging tens of thousands? Then you need to replace bulbs every crop to every other crop, more nutrients, soil, & water when you run out, it still ends up being probably 1/4 the cost of dispensaries or less if you get high-yielding strains grown fairly decently. I highly recommend growing your own if you have the dedication & patience. Research as much as you can, & remember that the more time & effort (not necessarily $) you put into it, the better your outcome.

[FarmerSteve]

I'm convinced that if a person is determined, hard working, focused and humble enough, they can start growing VERY good buds right off the bat. It's going to cost a little $$, but almost every person, EVERY ONE OF US, cuts corners, doesn't follow directions, doesn't read and investigate their subject properly, doesn't ask for enough help, and so on, and THAT is why most people have problems.

I'm not saying that you won't have issues, or that you won't learn a LOT from experience, but I think it can work.

I say this because I was thinking the same thing. At some point, a group of people should come together, divide the upfront costs, assign managers and growers (maybe everyone who can do the work can pitch in like a community garden?) and then equally divide the bounty amongst the members. How do we pay for it? Well, we figure out what our crop will be, and figure out how much hash and kief we will get as well. Then we figure out how much each person gets based on a formula of "what do we have to sell to stay operating"?

Lets say there was 100 people. 300 plants, and we'll say that comes to harvest 4 times a year. What can we guesstimate that each plant will produce, maybe3 ounces at a time, plus the extras? So that's 225 pounds a year. Let's say each member gets 2 free ounces a month. Even at dirt cheap prices, that's going to save a member what, $500.00 a month? And don't forget all the "perks" that you're going to get, FOR FREE. Bubble hash? Check! UNREAL edibles? Check!

So now you have 75 pounds, which is 1,200 ounces. Now what if we sell our goods for a top dollar of $130.00 an ounce. Who wouldn't go out of their way for $30 QUARTERS and $130 OUNCES? And it's gotta be good. But our growers care. And we realize, as members, and customers, that Farmer Steve's buds may not be the best looking right now, but he's learning, and it will get better. Besides, you can't beat the price, as a member, or a grower.

That would bring us $150,000 a year. Can we grow and put some $$ (maybe not enough to get anyone a BMW) in our workers pockets on that?

Just a blazed out thought. I imagine there's a LOT of people who are having visions like this. And I think it's only a matter of time before it happens.

[palerider7777]

Like most newbie license holders I was initially ecstatic. Ya mean I can buy shit legally???? Suddenly, shopping became interesting, so many dispensaries, so many strains.

Kids in candy stores seldom think about price but I'm a retiree on a small, fixed income so eventually I started noticing that $60 an eighth adds up real fast.

Ecstasy switched to indignation. Why does this cost so much if it's legal? It's a weed, for decades we've been told how easy it is to grow. More importantly, no one can grow legally unless they have patients - it is my license, my plants, not the grower or dispensary owner's.

So I started looking around for a caregiver who knew what they were doing.

Lots of not-so-good choices. 10% discount on dispensary prices seemed most common. I found better, eventually - but even that deal, at it's best, will only provide me with 1/4 of my need.

There's pushback from some growers/caregivers too, claiming that we don't have a clue how much it costs to grow or what a reasonable harvest is. They're right; I don't know what the real costs of growing are.

Seems to me the people who would really know this are long-time growers, but they've been illegal for so long that coming out isn't gonna happen any time soon.

I found this today on cl. I think it's a good starting point for a real discussion, even though there's no sources given for any of the numbers.

I hope anyone with knowledge of any part of this would comment.


Caregiver initial investment in a commercial grow space to grow plants for 16 patients including lights, ventilation, propagation, genetics, construction, re-wiring, etc:............ $30,000

Monthly rent/least on commercial space, about 1000 ftsq:..................$1200

Business Licenses, legal consultation, business plan :.............$2000

Expenses to pay labor during harvest/trim (monthly):....................$1000 or trade medicine

Monthly electricity, maintenance,etc:.................................. ............$1000

So, that's a $32,000 initial investment with about $3200/month in expenses (monthly expenses are estimated HIGH to give you room to economize in the future) so your first year would cost you about $66,000.

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.

So here's the nugget: using just the low end, 50lbs, which is 800 ounces. If you sold your medicine for $250/ounce (about $150 less than dispensaries) that's $200,000 in your first year, minus your start up costs and you make a profit of $134,000 and year two would not have the $32,000 initial investment as you already recovered that so your profit goes UP!!! We've not even touched upon the fact that you'll have the same weight in leaf/trim that you can turn into edible cannabis, hash, kief, etc which all commands a much higher retail price.

THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE JUST ASK QUESTIONS!!!


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

On my plants.

Still got some indignation, yessir.

Learning to grow my own I am, small apartment or not.

ROFLMAO 1/2 LB PER PLANT 75+% of grower don't hit that.most don't have big setups like this.most are happy if they get 2 oz's per plant.yes i can see you don't know much about growing but you will soon find out from what your saying.and to get 1/2 lb per plant it takes some veg time.like this if you want to get close to 1/2lb per plant you need to train your plant just growing a str8 up plant not gunna work.it is a full job depending on your setup even then it's alot of work.alil closet setup with floro's or cfl will grow stuff but you will see.

growing for yourself will give you 3 plants at a time to flower. so at the very least it will take you 2 months per cycle just to flower so if u have the right setup "2 rooms" you could go str8 flower each time.depending on how long/big u veg them too will depend on yeild.so lets just say your on every 2 months.to get a lb you would need to veg to atleast 15 or so inches with training. and if the rest of your ducks are in a row u might get the lb. atleast a 1k light setup as well.yes 600 will work but..well never mind u will see.so 1 k + pumps,fans,nutes,water,your time.......do i think 60 an 1/8th is abit much?

yea but thats whats gunna happen going to a shop.someone like myself lets it go for 250 an oz that breaks down to around 31 an 1/8th.do you think that is a rip off? so lets say the grower says no less than 250,for some odd reason people like yourself for some reason think thats a rip off and instead go to a shop and pay double and then bitch about it?i see it all the time everyday.im thinking to myself i just told this guy 250 all day long and he acts like i should give him an oz a month free and sell it to them at 125 each.so if i won't do that they would rather go to a shop"the same place i vendor to since i don't have patients btw".then that same person goes and instead of 250 an oz the end up paying double.

these patients make no sense at all if the grower won't give over oz's per month + cut prices to next to nothing then the peeps would rather go to a shop and then bitch about it.makes no sense.

i'll ask ya this forget all the expenses what is your time worth to you?on top of that everybody that grows is just as hurt as you if not more.atleast they should be as in order to even get the card like i did i had to give 3 years of doc notes ct's mri's so on to get mine.so it's not like the grower is just sum young buck that can run for hours on end no prob.

lets not forget leo still has a hard on for ya too,they find out u grow or nosey peeps next door call in on ya can be just as if it was illegal still.believe me when i say leo does not like you infact they think your scum.then we have the punk thugs that go around all day just sniffing the air to find a grow to go rob.

bottom line is very simple if someone wants to charge 60 an 18/th they have every right to as there is alot more to it than it's easy it's just a weed just throw the seeds where ever and in a few days you have top notch dank meds.far from it but you will see....

[redtails]

That's exactly it, it may be fairly cheap to grow yourself but do you want to invest the time in it not to mention the risks of getting caught? That's all factored into the final price along with many other things & like palerider said the clubs have to make their 50% to stay operating in the "green"...Same thing with anything really, it's cheaper to make/do something yourself if you have the resources & knowhow but most people would rather just go to a shop & have someone else pick it out for ya.

[palerider7777]

I'm convinced that if a person is determined, hard working, focused and humble enough, they can start growing VERY good buds right off the bat. It's going to cost a little $$, but almost every person, EVERY ONE OF US, cuts corners, doesn't follow directions, doesn't read and investigate their subject properly, doesn't ask for enough help, and so on, and THAT is why most people have problems.

I'm not saying that you won't have issues, or that you won't learn a LOT from experience, but I think it can work.

I say this because I was thinking the same thing. At some point, a group of people should come together, divide the upfront costs, assign managers and growers (maybe everyone who can do the work can pitch in like a community garden?) and then equally divide the bounty amongst the members. How do we pay for it? Well, we figure out what our crop will be, and figure out how much hash and kief we will get as well. Then we figure out how much each person gets based on a formula of "what do we have to sell to stay operating"?

Lets say there was 100 people. 300 plants, and we'll say that comes to harvest 4 times a year. What can we guesstimate that each plant will produce, maybe3 ounces at a time, plus the extras? So that's 225 pounds a year. Let's say each member gets 2 free ounces a month. Even at dirt cheap prices, that's going to save a member what, $500.00 a month? And don't forget all the "perks" that you're going to get, FOR FREE. Bubble hash? Check! UNREAL edibles? Check!

So now you have 75 pounds, which is 1,200 ounces. Now what if we sell our goods for a top dollar of $130.00 an ounce. Who wouldn't go out of their way for $30 QUARTERS and $130 OUNCES? And it's gotta be good. But our growers care. And we realize, as members, and customers, that Farmer Steve's buds may not be the best looking right now, but he's learning, and it will get better. Besides, you can't beat the price, as a member, or a grower.

That would bring us $150,000 a year. Can we grow and put some $$ (maybe not enough to get anyone a BMW) in our workers pockets on that?

Just a blazed out thought. I imagine there's a LOT of people who are having visions like this. And I think it's only a matter of time before it happens.

thing is everything looks good on paper it's not until you do it that you see what really happens.150,000 / 100 peeps =1500 a year per person.thats very far from a bmw more like a tricycle lmao.and your harvest will be diffrent everytime.something always throws a wrench in your plan once you get going. thing is looks like you have'nt been in any type of real biz b4 or else you would know this already.when you try to cut throat everyone else starts to do it to the point of noone making anything and then on top of all that when people start to see the 130 oz's they then become even more greedy like u see with lil kids that are'nt raised right.they start to think 130 an oz what a rip off if there selling it at 130 an oz then it must only cost them 20 an oz to produce what a rip off we want it cheaper.but what do i know im just the forum prick i guess?

btw most of the peeps thinks it should be givin away for free your back breaking time means squat to them. to prove it i had a guy call me about becoming my patient but he wanted a deal. i said i can give you an 1/4 oz free a month and 5grams of bubble every other month free then i can go 200 an oz.he said i was a rip off and hung up.....live and learn i guess.

[Delta9Caregivrs]

This gives you the ability to grow for 16 patients or about 96 plants with no more than 48 being mature. i.e if you had two 6-month cycles(yes you can have more but for simplicity of this argument we'll consider 2 harvests) as a professional you should harvest anywhere between, 50 and 100lbs of top quality medicinal cannabis per year. If you can't do this then GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS and stop whining.


The yield assumption is what, about a half pound per plant on his low end? That's important because we're talking about profits here, I think growers are entitled to make money at what they do but they ain't Wall Street bankers.

Real simple stuff here. What we pay - what it costs per oz to grow = profit.

LOL... 50-100 lbs per year... lol half pound a plant yr gonna harvest... KEEP DREAMING... your numbers are bonkers.... simply cause you have no clue what yr talking about....