automotive HID lights vs. cfl's

[bubbas]

Hi,
I'm starting this thread to compare a variety of lights for small closet grows. First i'm posting only light outputs of 250 watt 6400K vs. 250 watt 25000K vs. automotive HID lamps. I built three indenticle boxes 24' X 22" x 36". I'm measuring output at the bottom of the box. in the first photo the box on the bottom left is the 6400K 250 watt cfl, bottom right is the car HID and the top is the 250 watt 25000K. Average light output are as follows. 250/6400K 5000lux peak was 5410 lux, 250/25000K 1500 lux and peak was 1750 lux the car hid average was 19000lux and peak was 31000 Lux!!! I believe the peak for the car hid was so high because of the reflector design, never the less output was 4 times that of the 250/6400K and best of all this system only draws 70 watts! These car HID's are basically mini metal helide bulbs that run off of 12 volts DC. They also come in a wide range of colors from 3000K to 25000K but beware there are cheap halogens that claim to be HID's. you can tell the difference by the addition of a ballast for the true hid's. The only fault with these is they are only rated for 3000hrs. but that's in a car with high under hood temps and road vibration. I used a fog light housing and removed the glass and directed a fan at the bulbs. this made a huge difference, the housings were as cold as ambient air. I also directed the fan of the power supply to cool the ballast which again worked awesome bringing the ballast temp down to bairly warm. With these adjustments, i believe the life will be greatly improved.
I think these will work awesome for small closet grows using 8000K for veg and 3000K for bud. you wouldn't have an issue with poor light penatration. i'll be testing this theory in the comming weeks.
These pictures do no justice on how much brighter the mini hid is. I tried to post pictures of my lux readings but maxed out on allowable pictures on the post. Also it is possible to run these off a battery and a solar panel. if these work the way i think they will, i'll be putting packages together for internet sales. Stay tuned.

bubbas Reviewed by bubbas on 12-11-2009. automotive HID lights vs. cfl's Hi, I'm starting this thread to compare a variety of lights for small closet grows. First i'm posting only light outputs of 250 watt 6400K vs. 250 watt 25000K vs. automotive HID lamps. I built three indenticle boxes 24' X 22" x 36". I'm measuring output at the bottom of the box. in the first photo the box on the bottom left is the 6400K 250 watt cfl, bottom right is the car HID and the top is the 250 watt 25000K. Average light output are as follows. 250/6400K 5000lux peak was 5410 lux, Rating: 5

[ForgetClassC]

Ive never seen the purple CFL's, let us knopw if they work better for veg/flower/both.

[redtails]

That's awesome, I was wondering about the car HID's-I'm always blinded by them on the road so you know they're bright but do they have a better chance? I guess we'll see...props!

[bubbas]

Hey
They are not only bright they use only 35 watts each! and they come in the correct color....well almost the lowest color i can find is 3000K but this 3000K is very yellow like what you would see in a fog light so i think it will rock. I don't know why no ones ever tried this.
As for the purple cfl, it's been around for a few years primarily in the UK. Haven't seen any one try them but they are suppse to have higher blue and red spectrums but i think they are not bright enough only a third of 6400K so i think light penatration will be a problem. I got them for free from a chinese supplier to try and test them. Just had to pay for shipping and he sent me 6 of them!.

[redtails]

The reason I haven't tried em is price...They're like $600+ around here for a new kit unless you got a hookup...?

[bubbas]

No man, they are under 100 bucks now, market has been flooded over the last two years and price has come way down. I been selling them for a while but price has come down so low it's not worth it anymore but if these work, i may have found a new market! I'm thinking of puting a kit together with reflectors, both spectrum bulbs, power supply and ballast

[Vancefish]

Well you caught my curiosity.

This may be a stupid question. However I've understood Color temp (K rating), I read all about Lumens (peoples visible light), and I've read all about PAR (plants usable light). What I can't seem to figure out is Luxx. I assume it's a reading given by a light meter. However how well or how does that convert to PAR or Lumens? :wtf:

I'm thinking these could also be used for dark spots in a larger room or early Veg before moving under the "power house" HIDs.

Keep us posted, I'd like to see some plants in those boxes, preferably all clones of the same plant?

[bubbas]

Hi Vancefish,
Luxx is a measurment of light intensity simular to foot candles. I don't know what the formula to convert lux to lumins. Unfortunatly my quantum PAR meter crapped out on me so i had to snd it back and was unable to make a uMol measurment.

[Vancefish]

Well I went and looked it up, here is what I found:

The lux (symbol: lx) is the SI unit of illuminance and luminous emittance. It is used in photometry as a measure of the intensity, as perceived by the human eye, of light that hits or passes through a surface. It is analogous to the radiometric unit watts per square metre, but with the power at each wavelength weighted according to the luminosity function, a standardized model of human visual (but not circadian) brightness perception. In English, "lux" is used in both singular and plural.[1]

Explanation:

Lux is a derived unit based on lumen, and lumen is a derived unit based on candela.

One lux is equal to one lumen per square metre, where 4π lumens is the total luminous flux of a light source of one candela of luminous intensity:

1 lx = 1 lm·m-2 = 1 cd·sr·mâ??2.
As with other SI units, SI prefixes can be used, for example a kilolux (klx) is 1,000 lux.

Illuminance Example
10−5 lux Light from Sirius, the brightest star in the night sky[2]
10−4 lux Total starlight, overcast sky[2]
0.002 lux Moonless clear night sky with airglow[2]
0.01 lux Quarter moon
0.27 lux Full moon on a clear night[2][3]
1 lux Full moon overhead at tropical latitudes[4]
3.4 lux Dark limit of civil twilight under a clear sky[5]
50 lux Family living room[6]
80 lux Hallway/toilet[7]
100 lux Very dark overcast day[2]
320â??500 lux Office lighting[8][9][10]
400 lux Sunrise or sunset on a clear day.
1,000 lux Overcast day[2]; typical TV studio lighting
10,000â??25,000 lux Full daylight (not direct sun)[2]
32,000â??130,000 lux Direct sunlight

Basically what this says is Luxx is Lumens over a specified area of 1 sq meter. And that Luxx is a measurment of Lumens not PAR.

Unfortunately I will need to see how effective these are in either a PAR measurement or in a fully grown (from clone to crop). To decide if these are in my future.

Just because I think(and know) it's bright. I DON'T know it's right.

I have no reason to believe these CAN'T work! As was said early on, these are just a tiny HID. Thus the tech exists, question is are the bulbs that are available now capable of the intensity in those frequencies we so desire?

Maybe some of us should email EYE and get them to make Hortilux versions of these.

[redtails]

No man, they are under 100 bucks now, market has been flooded over the last two years and price has come way down. I been selling them for a while but price has come down so low it's not worth it anymore but if these work, i may have found a new market! I'm thinking of puting a kit together with reflectors, both spectrum bulbs, power supply and ballast

If you do that, definitely let me know! Also, how hot do these run generally compared to the 250w CFL(I have these currently, 6400 & 2700K)?