Floppy / Rubbery Leaves

[Prodaytrader]

I have been watching this happen for a couple days now. I thought it might be too much water so I backed it off. It might be the cold, but I cant seem to find any similar pictures on the net so it's hard for me to tell.

225 ppm
5.8 ph
50% RO water / 50% Tap water set for few days prior to using
2 minutes off, 90 seconds off currently, was 8 minutes off, 90 seconds on for low pressure misters
15 on, 15 off for 3 head aeromister fogger
single tub aeroponic grow

During lights on, the temps are about 76 topside, 70 or so in the res. Lights out are a different story and today it seemed the temps topside were about 59 and in the res about 65 which is very unusual for me. I think the temps are getting in the low 60's at night.

The bigger plants seem fine although they too show minor signs of unhappiness. I'm not sure if this is a cold issue or a watering issue.

Prodaytrader Reviewed by Prodaytrader on 12-09-2009. Floppy / Rubbery Leaves I have been watching this happen for a couple days now. I thought it might be too much water so I backed it off. It might be the cold, but I cant seem to find any similar pictures on the net so it's hard for me to tell. 225 ppm 5.8 ph 50% RO water / 50% Tap water set for few days prior to using 2 minutes off, 90 seconds off currently, was 8 minutes off, 90 seconds on for low pressure misters 15 on, 15 off for 3 head aeromister fogger single tub aeroponic grow During lights on, the Rating: 5

[Prodaytrader]

bump

More of the same. I added in a bunch of water thinking the plants may not be getting enough water but at the same time I am watering too much. I think I have a mold on the base of the stem on one or two of the plants which is probably due to the fog use. I really want to rule out temps because I am seeing lots of people who's night time temps are in the 50's and it doesn't cause this kind of damage. The spots on the leaves are most likely from the lights and my water splashing abuse. I will have to be more careful with opening the lid and the pumps are still on.

None of this explains why the leaves are wrinkly, some rubbery almost, and one at least one plant a set of leaves completely dried out in the middle of the night in the middle of the leave. How does a leave dry out in the middle?

[Prodaytrader]

I'm still suffering from the same issue, but they seem slightly better after a few days. I noticed that some of the stems had purple veins on them which I had never noticed before. The veins where not uniform across the plants and since I am using bag seed from maybe 4 or 5 different bags, there is no way that it is a genetic issue with respect to showing purple veins. It would seem that floppy wrinkled leaves, soft stems and purple veins would be a Phosphorus issue. As I was reading up on phosphorus lock out it started to fit more and more. Apparently P gets locked out at ph's of 6+ and I regularly check my ph to find it at 6.5 or so. Then I bring it back down to about 5.8 max before stopping. I think that since my water tends to regularly sit at 6+ ph that it was enabling a P lockout when the cold hit. Apparently P gets locked out in other ways as well including temps in the 50's. Since my grow is in the garage closet the temps can jump around when the lights are out. With lights on, temps are easy to control with fans and such, but when light go out, those same fans are on when they don't need to be in terms of temp. The temps are lowering and several times I have discovered the temps around the plants to be in the 50's. There must have been at least one occasion or more, that the temps dipped low enough during lights out to lock out the P with the addition of the PH being a little too high.

I chanced across a pic that showed a dried up leaf with the last 1/4 of the tips still plush and green while the beginning and middle part of the leaf are completely dried up. This according to that site was a sure sign of P lock out and as I mentioned in other posts, I have one plants with 1 set of leaves that look like that.

Additionally, I have been debating back and forth on whether or not to use my fogger still. I developed some mold on several stems which told me that the humidity was out of control. I turned the fogger off a few days ago and raised the water level significantly in an effort to meet the lower roots on my younger plants. When my older plants finally grew enough roots to touch the res, they shot up like monsters, which is why I raised the water level. So for a few days at least the plants did not have access to fog. No biggie really, except that if I'm not going to use fog, my ppm's need to be much much higher. Apparently somebody forgot to tell me that I needed to be raising ppm's each week. Several months ago I had such an issue with burning tips since I was using nothing but fog, that it scared me off of high ppm's. This also led to P deficiency I think.

On at least one occasion last week, I saw a nice bloom of leaves that all came in yellow. For some reason that didn't register like it should have with me and tell me my ppm's were way to low. With the mix of 3 week and 8 week old plants, I cant seem to keep one set of plants happy while not pissing off another set. All of this leads me to the realization that it's a terrible idea to have different aged plants in the same res especially when they are aged so far apart like mine are.

So last night I dumped in a bunch of fresh ferts and added in a little bit of the bloom nutes as well to help bring P up. I am starting to see a difference. I doubt I will be able to recover the damaged leaves as they are so twisted, dried and still green oddly enough. The newer growth is starting to stand mighty tall again which is encouraging.

I know to some degree cold is causing me issues, but I am still confident that they can survive 55 degree weather. I have other plants in my garage that are handling the colder weather fine. I get this is a different plant though and may not be able to handle 50+ degree weather or at the very least these unknown strains cant handle it. I need to figure out how to put a small heater triggered by a thermometer somehow.

Currently, my ph is under 6, ppm's are at about 450 and I am using my fogger now for 1 minute out of 10 and my misters are 15 on and 15 off. I also dumped in a little extra bloom ferts for the P increase.

Sound like I'm on the right track finally?

[senorx12562]

If you've seen some of my posts, you know I'm not an expert, especially on hydro, but I'm pretty sure your problem is not temp related. I think mid-fifties at night (plant's night of course) would cause no problems. I imagine sativas are more sensitive to cold , but those look like indica or indica hybrids.

[Prodaytrader]

Yea, I kind of have to rule it out too, but I went ahead and hung a cheap heater in the room as well. It turns out that they small ceramic heaters everyone is selling has a thermostat built onto the front of the unit so you can dial in a temp that you wait it to turn on at. So I pretty much set it to come on when temps get below 60. However, it doesn't seem to make a difference at all.

I think the issue is humidity to be honest and perhaps its a combination of humidity and the cold. I can see how a high humidity could cause the leaves to get damp and then when them temps drop, the leaves go crazy. Just a thought, but the plants are getting better.

[senorx12562]

Yea, I kind of have to rule it out too, but I went ahead and hung a cheap heater in the room as well. It turns out that they small ceramic heaters everyone is selling has a thermostat built onto the front of the unit so you can dial in a temp that you wait it to turn on at. So I pretty much set it to come on when temps get below 60. However, it doesn't seem to make a difference at all.

I think the issue is humidity to be honest and perhaps its a combination of humidity and the cold. I can see how a high humidity could cause the leaves to get damp and then when them temps drop, the leaves go crazy. Just a thought, but the plants are getting better.

I live in a semi-arid climate at about 5100 feet elevation, so humidity is the least of my worries, but my flowering room has gotten down to about 59 degrees, and no ill effects so far that I can tell. Of course as the temp goes down, the relative humidity goes up with the decrease in temp overnight, so I would get a thermometer with a hygrometer with a minimum/maximum function so you can see where it actually got to overnight. Good luck.