Will Obama Legalize Marijuana?

[senorx12562]

i love my country too, i just hate my govt.



i guarantee you they know nothing of the declaration of independence.



the second amendment has already been to the supreme court and upheld. they tried to outlaw handguns in washington dc. they tried to argue that the second amendment was for militias as pertaining to fighting off the britts. a militia is merely a group of ordinary citizens banded together fighting a common enemy, right?

part of the problem is ELECTED judges!

check out my quote in the sig from the dec. of ind. i feel ya 1000% percent here!



a lot of our power being removed stems from the federal reserve act of 1933. when citizens had to turnover their gold to the govt. to establish the fed reserve (which is the biggest scam in the history of mankind). they aren't a govt. entity and they charge the U.S. $.10 on the dollar to print up out currecny.....the only currency accepted in the U.S. mind you.....and all in the name of our protection from americans trading gold with the germans/italians/japanese.

"By a continuing process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. There is no subtler, more sure way of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner in which not one man in a million is able to diagnose." --- John Maynard Keynes

unfortunately keynes is the creator of the most common school of thought when it comes to economics in this country. it's a scary thought to be sure. and then you have ben bernanke who is a joke. everything he says now is the direct opposite of his position from before his time with the fed.

and stalin killed more russians then hitler did jews. funny no one remembers that.

we already meet 5 of the 10 things outlined in the communist manifesto, and have partial matches to several others.



they are all on my "to read" list. it's funny the light they try to cast our forefathers in. most of the shit you hear about them now is so far from the truth that it's not even funny.

keep on bringing it my friend!


-shake

If you want a more modern perspective than Adam Smith and the founding fathers of our country, check out anything by F.A. Hayek or Ludwig von Mises. I'm sure our resident comedian/economist, phunnyman, would concur. These men are the fathers of the branch of economics known as the "Austrian" school, and do probably the best job of explaining why "top-down" control economies don't work. Human Action by Mises is the seminal work on the subject.

Prohibition is just one very small part of a much larger problem. FDR's appointees to the Supreme Court, and numerous ones thereafter, have construed the 9th and 10th amendments to our constitution so as to render them dead letters, when in fact they are probably the most important ones, and would have prevented the continual and progressively worse usurpation of power by the federal government vis-a-vis the states and you and I that has been going on since the depression (not this one but the last). And no, Obama will NEVER EVEN ADDRESS the legalization of marijuana. To do so would far too great an admission of government fallibility for him to ever countenance.

[headshake]

If you want a more modern perspective than Adam Smith and the founding fathers of our country, check out anything by F.A. Hayek or Ludwig von Mises. I'm sure our resident comedian/economist, phunnyman, would concur. These men are the fathers of the branch of economics known as the "Austrian" school, and do probably the best job of explaining why "top-down" control economies don't work. Human Action by Mises is the seminal work on the subject.

Prohibition is just one very small part of a much larger problem. FDR's appointees to the Supreme Court, and numerous ones thereafter, have construed the 9th and 10th amendments to our constitution so as to render them dead letters, when in fact they are probably the most important ones, and would have prevented the continual and progressively worse usurpation of power by the federal government vis-a-vis the states and you and I that has been going on since the depression (not this one but the last). And no, Obama will NEVER EVEN ADDRESS the legalization of marijuana. To do so would far too great an admission of government fallibility for him to ever countenance.

my uncle actually turned me on to Mises and the austiran school of economic thought.


phunnyman, i won't sit here and pretend to be something that i'm not. i'm someone who is just now starting to poke his nose into this arena after "finding myself" after growing up. i have a lot of learning to do, but have the desire to learn it all and to make great change.

i too served my country, love my country and look forward to creating a revolution in my country. i love the constitution and the bill of rights and if i had to put a label on myself would consider myself a libertarian as well.

i think we should go back to the constitution and bill of rights and keep a very small, minimally imposing federal govt and let the states run themselves like you suggest.

i think it might take a state (texas or the original 13) to succeed from the union before the federal govt will take notice. just my opinion here. i know there are groups who are trying for this.

thanks to both of you for all the brain food! keep on posting and i'll keep reading.

i think it's hilarious that america was basically founded on the quote in my sig from the declaration of independence. that same quote will be the rallying cry for revolution yet the ones that revolt will be labeled treasonous traitors. our country has come to a sad en passe.


**on a side note**

does anyone else find it hilarious that the dems are now hoping to have a health care bill done by feb, after obama wanted it done by last march.....and then december........ROTFLMAO!!!


-shake

[Phunnyman]

Both Headshake and Senor are quite dead on in their assessments on the current administration position on this subject which will set that precedent for many other rights that have been trampled and upon the Austrian school of thought regarding economics.

I'm far from an expert on the subject with only the past decade of my life being focused upon the subject of economics and working towards the ability to serve as a social scientist in something I truly enjoy and think that most are ignorant of and an up to date understanding needs to be shared, there is a wide, wide array of information, fact, and theory to be applied and studied thoroughly.

Let's pose this question in regard to the original post for some thought; With our current government and Presidential administration, why would it be advantageous or not to address the prospect of legalization/decriminalization at this time and what do you think the outcome would most likely be? How could it be a positive or a negative for this administration? If you were Obama today, how would you address or not the legalization/decriminalization?

[senorx12562]

Both Headshake and Senor are quite dead on in their assessments on the current administration position on this subject which will set that precedent for many other rights that have been trampled and upon the Austrian school of thought regarding economics.

I'm far from an expert on the subject with only the past decade of my life being focused upon the subject of economics and working towards the ability to serve as a social scientist in something I truly enjoy and think that most are ignorant of and an up to date understanding needs to be shared, there is a wide, wide array of information, fact, and theory to be applied and studied thoroughly.

Let's pose this question in regard to the original post for some thought; With our current government and Presidential administration, why would it be advantageous or not to address the prospect of legalization/decriminalization at this time and what do you think the outcome would most likely be? How could it be a positive or a negative for this administration? If you were Obama today, how would you address or not the legalization/decriminalization?

If I wanted to be re-elected I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole on any side of the question. The core groups on either side are too small (for now) to justify potentially pissing off the middle. From a political perspective (clearly the only one Obama, or, to be fair, most of the rest of them from either side of the aisle care about) the danger far outweighs anything to potentially be gained.

[headshake]

If I wanted to be re-elected I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole on any side of the question. The core groups on either side are too small (for now) to justify potentially pissing off the middle. From a political perspective (clearly the only one Obama, or, to be fair, most of the rest of them from either side of the aisle care about) the danger far outweighs anything to potentially be gained.

i don't think obama has any worries about re-election as it won't happen (IMO). his approval rates keep sleeping, his deadlines keep not being met and he's not proactive on anything and wavers on issues. i just don't see there being a question about it. sad thing is that he has messed up other minorities chances for getting elected to pres (agian, IMO).

Let's pose this question in regard to the original post for some thought; With our current government and Presidential administration, why would it be advantageous or not to address the prospect of legalization/decriminalization at this time and what do you think the outcome would most likely be? How could it be a positive or a negative for this administration? If you were Obama today, how would you address or not the legalization/decriminalization?

it would be advantageous to legalize MJ for numerous reasons. first things first, in 2008 847,864 persons were arrested for mj (or 49.8% of ALL drug related arrests!). of those 847,864, 89% (or 754,224 Americans) were charged with possession only. the remaining 93,640 individuals were charged with â??sale/manufacture,â?� a category that includes all cultivation offenses, even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.

not to mention that the numbers are skewed because of those 11% some are MMJ patients! (it would be interesting to know the true numbers here!)


secondly, legalizing MJ would obviously help alleviate the strain on a prison system that is ridiculous to begin with. as of december 31, 2008 the US imprisons 754 inmates per 100,000 citizens. the US has the highest documented prison and jail population IN THE WORLD!

according to the US bureau of justice statistics (BJS): "In 2008, over 7.3 million people were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole at yearend â?? 3.2% of all U.S. adult residents or 1 in every 31 adults."

betwen 2.3 and 2.4 MILLION people were in prison or jail in 2008.

"The People's Republic of China ranks second with 1.5 million inmates, while having four times the population, thus having only about 18% of the US incarceration rate"

those are some scary statistics there.

thirdly, the legalization of would take away some of the power (profits) of pharmaceutical companies. people would actually be able to afford their medication. and seeing as MJ has many medicinal properties, this would help immensely.

fourthly, the taxation of MJ, whether medicinally or otherwise) would generate revenue for a burdened economy. this has the potential to help lower, insurance rates, increase employment (the US is sitting at about 10% unemployment, with 7% of the population saying that they can't work enough or have given up looking) as well as possibly help fund numerous other programs whether it be social security, insurance or alternative fuels (the list is endless here).

one more interesting note, if they do legalize MJ they could/would/should legalize hemp. this would also create jobs and revenue seeing as all of the hemp used in this country is imported (mostly from spain).

**NOT TO MENTION THIS IS A TRUE GREEN PRODUCT**

so politicians need to quit worrying about being re-elected and put AMERICAS BEST INTERESTS AT HEART! perhaps changing the system from the inside is just what they need to get re-elected. take the power from the religious (which is funny seeing as most of our forefathers were pagans) and other groups and put the choice of americans back into the hands of said americans.

and finally, even though "the war on drugs is over" it would free up funds that are being wasted trying to cure this "medical addiction" with prison time and the like. we could put all the billions they waste here to good use as well.

check out the shafer commission. this was the commission that was used in the early '70s when the govt was trying to draft the Controlled Substance Act (since timothy leary took the marijuana tax act of 1937 to the supreme court and had it overturned for being unconstitutional). it was commissioned by richard nixon. in the report there are a couple of great quotes that i will leave you with.....

"[T]he criminal law is too harsh a tool to apply to personal possession even in the effort to discourage use. It implies an overwhelming indictment of the behavior which we believe is not appropriate. The actual and potential harm of use of the drug is not great enough to justify intrusion by the criminal law into private behavior, a step which our society takes only 'with the greatest reluctance."

"While the judiciary is the governmental institution most directly concerned with the protection of individual liberties, all policy-makers have a responsibility to consider our constitutional heritage when framing public policy. Regardless of whether or not the courts would overturn a prohibition of possession of marihuana for personal use in the home, we are necessarily influenced by the high place traditionally occupied by the value of privacy in our constitutional scheme."



as far as the cons, i can think of none!


-shake

[CannaChrist]

No. I doubt Obama will legalize it. He said he won't waste his political capital on it.
Pharmaceutical companys have to much power right now and stand to lose billions of dollars due to people self medicating for various reasons. In my opinion.

:yippee:I hope I'm wrong.

[Phunnyman]

High Canna,

You're right about the power of the med company's, the threat from Gods gift to us is that it is a naturally occurring organic plant that has been used for thousands of years to alleviate so many things that the med company's make their living off of.

I don't think he will either, I think its gonna take state level action to actively prevent the fed agencies from violating citizens rights, the redirection of tax monies, and the increase in the coffers for any state to see what not only the best choice is but what the right choice is. Then we will see it make its way through the house and senate....