Pump and Tank questions for Aeroponics

[Prodaytrader]

I'm creating a high pressure system and tonight I tested it. Fail! It would seem that the pump I bought it too powerful or something. The water is coming out at the misters really hot. What I think is that the pump needs more flow then what I am allowing and thus the pump is probably working harder then it needs too and causing the water in the chamber to boil over. I think most industrial aero setups use a tank between the pump and misters so that's what I am going to do unless I hear something better. Hopefully I can get a tank at Lowes rated for 125psi and connect that to a sprinkler solenoid. The pump will need some sort of shut off sensor for when the tank is full. Hopefully this will even out the mister pressure which seems erratic, reduce the water temperature and save the pump some unnecessary work.

What kind of tank and solenoid should I be looking to get? I'm really getting tired of all the trial and error and guess work.

Prodaytrader Reviewed by Prodaytrader on 11-19-2009. Pump and Tank questions for Aeroponics I'm creating a high pressure system and tonight I tested it. Fail! It would seem that the pump I bought it too powerful or something. The water is coming out at the misters really hot. What I think is that the pump needs more flow then what I am allowing and thus the pump is probably working harder then it needs too and causing the water in the chamber to boil over. I think most industrial aero setups use a tank between the pump and misters so that's what I am going to do unless I hear Rating: 5

[oldmac]

PDT,

Really sorry that the new setup did not work for you. Exactly what pump are you using? Does it have a pressure switch? Is this a submersible pump or inline? The spray output should be the same temp as your rez, there should be no additional heat produced by your pump.

Aero systems that use an accumulator tank or a pressurized tank (like a small well tank) use the pump to fill it and the pressure cut-off switch to determine the pressure of the tank/system.

Here's a link to AI (aeroponics international), these where the first people to offer a commercially available aeroponic systems. There is plenty of info there and they do sell parts such as mister nozzles and pumps (tho expensive).
Aeroponics, aeroponic systems and biocontrols to grow pesticide-free aeroponic food anywhere

We need to get you over this hurdle. You got some good answers about not needing all that hydrotron in your net pots on your other thread. One of the main advantages to using aero/fog is doing away with a grow medium.

[Prodaytrader]

I'm pretty wore out with this new build. Yesterday I was trying to hook up all the new stuff (tank, pressure switch, valves) and I hooked up the pressure switch wrong. When I tried the new setup out I shorted out a breaker which really pissed me off. Apparently the way I wired the motor would probably have killed me even though it was working. I had the ground wire somehow wired incorrectly but it worked until I tried to also wire in the pressure switch. I thought I had seized the pump, but apparently I just don't know how to properly use my multi-meter anymore....note to self: QUIT SMOKING!!! So after a needless pump exchange I decided to try another method of pumping the water to the misters. I went to Lowes, bought 3 seriously expensive pumps all of which were different styles, but all were submersiable. I thought that if I could get an outrageously sized submersible pump I could build enough pressure to power the misers. FAIL! So I have 800 dollars worth of pumps to return to Lowes tomorrow...LOL. Here is the pump I am using: Harbor Freight Pump
This pump is capable of powering my misters although at what pressure I do not know yet. Before I had the tank connected I hooked up the misters and they worked great, however the temperature was very warm. I only recently had the pump connected tonight and before one of my pipes started to leak I saw pressures exceeding 20 psi. I know it can go higher, just how high I don't know yet.

To this pump I have a tank "T" valve which has a 30 to 50 psi pump shut off switch, a pressure gauge, a 7 gallon diaphragm tank, a sprinkler solenoid and finally my 3/8" mister line. The idea here is that the pump will be controlled by a pressure switch which will monitor the tanks capacity. When the tank reaches a certain point of emptiness the pump will come on and refill the tank. Connected to the tank is a sprinkler solenoid which will be connected to my timer and it will control the misters. Depending on how much flow goes through the misters, the tank will need to refill maybe once per two mister cycles. Obviously until I get everything turned on, I wont know for sure.

I am handicapped for space which is why this is becoming more complicated then it should be. Tomorrow I will try to resolve all the remaining issues and see if this thing works.

[Prodaytrader]

duplicate

[oldmac]

Wish they gave more info on the pump. It looks like a shallow well pump, which should be capable of 50psi.

In a setup like that, the pump will come on with a pressure drop (maybe 10psi?) not from volume moved. Make sure you set the air pressure in the tank to whatever the max pressure you can get out of your well pump so that you get max pressure output untill pump kicks in again.

Hope it works for you this time, and good luck.

[Farmer Rich]

You guys are building some complicated systems!

For my simple recycle systems, I use a 396 gph echo submersible pump and push plenty of water through 12 easy clone 360 sprayers spread out on 2 legs. The lift from the reservoir up is about 26\" in 1/2\" pvc.. Works perfect.

Peace, Farmer Rich

[Prodaytrader]

I QUIT!!!

I took it all back or will at least. I exchanged the pump for a submersible 1500 gph pump. I dropped it into a 30 gallon container and plumbed 10 x 360 spray heads like what Farmer mentioned and called it quits. The higher gph rating ensures that I have at least a moderate amount of pressure going to the spray heads which is allowing them to create a finer spray then would be possible on the sub 500 pumps.

My build was too much and I failed too damn many times in the process. My wife and kid were threatening to leave me. I have spent nearly every waking hour of the past 2 weeks shopping, connecting, discovering a problem, returning to the store, then rinse and repeat. I am not kidding you when I say I have a pile of receipts probably 6 inches high. I was probably 1000 bucks into the system by the time I gave up. I could have bought a professionally built system for half what I was about to spend, or did spend until I took back most of the pieces. Most came from Lowe's, but I still have parts left like the fogger which I can't return.

For now, I'm even quitting fog. I have seen enough of the fog to know what I am giving up; it was a very agonizing decision to pull it, but ultimately the entire project lost my interest several days ago. I am tired of asking questions and researching the intricacies of ultrasonic-ponics. I am comfortable saying that I learned enough in this process to put together a low pressure aeroponic system that will in all likelihood not require another minute of my time from here to harvest at the least. So the whole process wasn't a total waste of time. Obviously there is a reason to why I am building this system in the first place and up till now, I have done a piss poor job of reaching that goal. At some point I had to make the decision of which was more important; the entertainment factor of learning and implementing the intricacies of cutting edge aeroponics, or getting to a harvest. From everything I have read even the most rudimentary of hydroponic systems, when tuned properly, will deliver at least a 1/2 inch of growth per day. I have had my original 3 plants for at least 6 weeks now and they aren't much taller then when I started. I should be well on my way into flowering right now, but I am not because I designed piss poor systems that were from the start overly complex and poorly engineered.

I did get a working high pressure system built at least to a point that I felt mildly comfortable leaving the plants in it overnight. However when I discovered that the mister heads were once again clogged, this would be the 6th time in 24 hours, I had finally had enough. I was either going to spend the day another 100 bucks in the hole and likely no closer to my goal, or I was going to tear it all down and slap together a functioning and proven system. I decided the harvest was more important. I have up till now, jostled, elbowed, jolted, pushed and transplanted those poor girls at least daily for the last month as I learned what the hell I was doing. I'm done and my family is done.

Tonight the girls are tucked into their comfortable bed. I will know tomorrow for sure if they like their new home, but from what I have been able to observe in the last few hours, they like their new home.

Should I start a grow log? I'm not really growing anything interesting anymore. Seems like everyone is doing low pressure aeroponics now, aren't they?

Farmer, can you give me an idea of your layout and what times your using for your sprayers? Since I am using 10 360 sprayers like yourself, I suspect we have very similar systems now. So what kind of watering times are you using? 1 on / 4 off - veg, 1 on / 5 off - flower?

[Farmer Rich]

Hey Prodaytrader,

Sorry to hear about all your troubles!!

For cycle times, I use 1 minute on/4 off for veg. This is via a CAP NFT-1 fixed timer. In flower, 1 min on/5 off, via a CAP variable cycle timer..

If it makes you feel better, I had some electrical issues and burned up nearly $500 in timers...

If it helps you, I\'ll post some pics of bare systems so you can see what I\'ve done.

Peace,

Farmer Rich

[oldmac]

You guys are building some complicated systems!

For my simple recycle systems, I use a 396 gph echo submersible pump and push plenty of water through 12 easy clone 360 sprayers spread out on 2 legs. The lift from the reservoir up is about 26\" in 1/2\" pvc.. Works perfect.

Peace, Farmer Rich

Hello Farmer Rich,

It really is not that complicated, if you know what your're doing. It becomes complicated when you are new to aero/fog and have to figure and sort out stuff for yourself.

The above system you have is very nice (just saw your thread, nice setup you built) but it is not true aeroponics. It is what many refer to as a FAG system (Fake Aeroponic Growing) since it is just spraying water around. To achieve aero you need to be able to atomize the water/nute solution to at least 50 microns or less. To achieve fog you need to get particule size down to 5 microns or less. It is obvious that to get to these levels it takes a bit of work, but can be worth it for some.

BTW, I'm one of "those" who believes in a shitload of small plants vs. growing bushes and trees indoors. That even extends to container growing. SOG size plants are what I've found to be the most efficent method of indoor growing, regardless of what type of artifical light used.

I have a thread in the Hydro section showing the setup of one of my grow aero/fog trays plus I have an album showing the construction of it, check them out.

oldmac

[oldmac]

I QUIT!!!

Sorry, again, to hear that ProdayTrader. But reading your whole post I think you've made a good decision to just go with just the spayers and additional pressure. Keep in mind you can always add a seperate fog to your setup, once you have it working good for you.

Trying to build any type of setup, while under the pressure to keep current girls happy and growing is very difficult. In the partnered grow where I'm setting up the aero/fog tray, there is a certian sence of pressure to get it on line for production, but we also have another bloom room (w/2 1k HPS) doing containers with Pro-Mix. This keeps everyting going while we step up to new technologies.

Good luck with it, hope you start to have some good growing with it. :thumbsup: