Seed question...

[Shockey]

What's up guys....not sure if this is the right forum, I'm not new to growing but thought this question may also relate to someone who is new. But out of curiosity, will a seed that has a tiny hole in it germ?? Its seems viable based on the squeezing method, and I have a ton of seeds like this and was just wondering. Thanks

Shockey Reviewed by Shockey on 09-16-2009. Seed question... What's up guys....not sure if this is the right forum, I'm not new to growing but thought this question may also relate to someone who is new. But out of curiosity, will a seed that has a tiny hole in it germ?? Its seems viable based on the squeezing method, and I have a ton of seeds like this and was just wondering. Thanks Rating: 5

[DOUGAL25]

Best way to find the answer to that is just to try germ'ing one or two and observe!

:stoned:

[F1SEEDS]

Best way to find the answer to that is just to try germ'ing one or two and observe!

:stoned:

its the only way to see if they work man



peace and love

geeman

[F1SEEDS]

man i think ur breaking site rules man


u are not really answering his Q are u!



peace and

geeman

[DOUGAL25]

Inside each seed is a miniscule drop of water. Poke a hole in the seed, (or crush it) and they lose that moisture and the embryo dies.

The tissues inside the seed are hard and dry. Imbibition (water absorption) is what will activate the biochemistry inside the seed to start mitosis... I don't think that minuscule amount of water inside keeps the embryo "alive", as it is dormant anyway, waiting for water to rev its engine.

Isn't that the whole point? - to have your seeds being dry?

I would love to hear what happens when you try it Shockey
:stoned:

[Rusty Trichome]

Sorry to disagree, but:

Seed Biology

pg 13:
Moisture content.
Any discussion of seed moisture must be based upon the 2 physiological classes of seeds inrespect to moisture: orthodox and recalcitrant. Orthodox seeds are seeds that can be dried to low moisture levels (below10% of fresh weight) without losing viability. Recalcitrant seeds cannot be dried below rather high levels (25% to 50%,depending on the species) without losing viability. This sensitivity to desiccation has important implications in the storageof seeds, and chapter 4 contains a broader discussion of this subject. Among orthodox seeds, the dry types (tables 2 and 3) are generally shed from the trees at rather low moisturecontents. Exact measurements of the moisture levels at which shedding occurs are hard to find, but some preliminary datasuggest a range of about 10% to 15% for sweetgum, green ash, and boxelder (Acer negundo L.) (Bonner 1996). The fleshyfruits (tables 2 and 3) also contain orthodox seeds, but because they are still enclosed in the fleshy tissues of the fruits, theyare shed at higher moisture contents. Black cherry fruits, for example, are shed at fruit moisture contents of 70 to 75%(Bonner 1975). Seed moisture contents are not quite as high, but they are much higher than those that are found inspecies with dry fruits. Some examples of seed moisture contents from fleshy fruits at shedding are flowering dogwood, adrupe, 34%, and persimmon (Diospyros virginiana L.), a berry, 50% (Bonner 1996).

In orthodox species with dry fruits, the maturation drying that occurs on the plants prior to shedding is the finalstage of development as the seeds enter their quiescent period. This stage is apparently necessary for the synthesis of manyenzyme systems, including those required for desiccation tolerance and germination when rehydration occurs (Bewley andBlack 1994). There are some data for tree seeds (Finch-Savage and others 1994), but most of the work in this area hasbeen done on castor bean (Ricinis communis L.) (Kermode and Bewley 1985) and cereal grains (Bewley and Black 1994).There is no reason to doubt, however, that the same physiological processes take place during maturation of orthodoxseeds of woody plants. Conditions are different in orthodox seeds of fleshy fruits, however, as the fruits are shed beforecomplete desiccation of the seeds. Desiccation occurs later after the fleshy covering has dried or been removed (eaten inmany cases). Many of these species have complex dormancies, and it can be hypothesized that there are interactions between the dormancy and the delay in maturation drying of the seeds. In recalcitrant seeds, there is no pronounced maturation drying stage, because development never stopscompletely. Moisture content slightly decreases, apparently associated with shedding of fruits (figure 8), but there is notrue quiescent period with recalcitrant seeds. Most species, especially tropical recalcitrant species, germinate soon aftershedding, and some, including several Quercus species, will germinate while still on the tree, an event defined as vivipary.

Perhaps this is why viability decreases with age...?
From what I understand, whether it's from ambient levels or stored inside...seed embryo's need their moisture to maintain viability.

If you Google Seed moisture content, you'll get shitloads of references.

[DOUGAL25]

Some good knowledge there - appreciate the effort on that

But from what I've read, the drier the better (to a certain point). Water acts as a catalyst to the "aging" process of a seed - the higher the moisture content, the lower the seed's vigor(viability) is.

According to Harrington's "rule of thumb", every 1% drop in moisture content will double storage life.

But what's the critical point of moisture content; rather, what is too dry for a cannabis seed?

The main question is, what's the moisture content of a seed with a hole in it?
Tough to answer that without the right equipment. But Shockey should still try a couple to see what's up - might still work!

Thanks again for the info Rusty...I'm staying optimistic about those seeds though!
:stoned:

[Rusty Trichome]

According to Harrington's "rule of thumb", every 1% drop in moisture content will double storage life.

Sure about that? How about the exceptions noted?
"this rule applies to a range between 5 and 14 percent" (Harrington 1972, Roberts 1979)

But what's the critical point of moisture content; rather, what is too dry for a cannabis seed?

In a nutshell, that's my point exactly. Drying them too much, or using a dry storage packet to artificially remove moisture (like those packets in prescriptions) isn't optimal, according to biology. We dry the seeds to harden the outer shell (which holds-in the moisture) and prevent mold in our seed storage jars. Not to dehydrate the embryo.

The main question is, what's the moisture content of a seed with a hole in it?

Zero. If exposed to air, and the moisture escapes, the embryo will die. A dry seed shell is not the same as a dry embryo. The membrane(s) covering the embryo retain moisture and carbohydrates (food for the emerging cotlydons) Optimal temperatures, warmth and ambient humidity (water) trigger the germination process.

[rudy2010]

Looks like some great info but just give them a try before tossing them.:smokin:

[Rusty Trichome]

We dry the seeds to harden the outer shell (which holds-in the moisture)

Meant to go back and edit it to say that the shell regulates the moisture to ambient humidity...the inner membranes hold the moisture. Got a phone call, and was too late to edit.