pH problems.. read lots of info, still need help!

[xm177e2]

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. 250w MH
.2) Distance from tops? was very close.. <1 ft, I raised it up to 2ft this week
.3) Reflector type? enclosed
.4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes
.5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes
.6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 24/0 250w MH conversion in an HPS ballast

Your medium:
.7) Specific brand and type of soil, FFOF straight out of the bag
.8) Size of container. 3 quart
.9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? no

Your nutrients and water:
10) Source of water? Tap.. pH is high, but I dont know exactly I'm assuming 7.0-8.0
11) Method of checking water ph. liquid test
12) Method of adjusting water ph. pH up/pH down
13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. I have only fed nutes twice at half strength FF Grow Big
14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering? They dont get regular feedings.. I water them every few days when the pot feels light.. I give them water till it is dripping out the bottom, they have been flushed a few times
15) Any additives or tea's? no
16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate? fluctuate.. see post
17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? Read post
18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? I started doing this yesterday.. a very small dose of FF grow big misted on the leaves out from under the light, placed under the light when they dried

Your growroom:
19) Indoors or outdoors? indoors
20) What size of closet, room or hut? closet is 9x7x4 I have a 5x4 area sectioned off with panda film
21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? 77F 40-50% humidity
22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? Thought I might have had whiteflies because of little white specs blowing off the leaves.. holes in leaves as well, but I dont think they could have been caused by flies, sprayed with azamax twice

Your strain:
23) What strain are you growing? indica dominant
24) From seeds or clones? seeds
25) Is this an autoflower strain? no



Hey everyone, I'm new here and this is my first grow. I've posted on other forums but have not really found any type of solution to my problem. My plants are now 1 month old, they are under a 250w MH in FFOF. Ever since the very begginning there has been pH problems. At first my pH was much too high and the plants were growing with mutated crazy looking leaves. I went and got a liquid test kit and began to pH down my tap water. All was going good and the plants seemed to be doing a little bit better, they always had yellow leaf tips even though I wasnt feeding any nutes. I decided to buy a cheap milwaukee test pen. This was a big mistake. I properly stored and calibrated the pen, but always wondered why its readings didn't coincide with my liquid test. I first noticed something was up when I had to add about 12 drops of pH down to a gallon of tap water to get the pen to read in the 6.5-7.0 range. With the liquid test kit, the indicator solution would turn proper color after 2 drops of pH down per gallon. I trusted the pen instead. My plants began to curl at the leaves, new growth started to come in twisted and ripped, the new leaves began to grow in extemely pale yellowish and blotchy, the bottom leaves are dying, and the middle leaves are getting rusty. I tested my pH runoff with the liquid kit, it was red, so I figure it is wayyy too low. I flushed my plants with some tap water that I added pH down to because I thought it was too high for the flush. After the flush I gave them their first feeding of nutes.. I did this because I thought the flush would have leached any nutrients out of the soil. I then realized that the pH down water + nutes I fed them probably further lowered my pH, so their next watering I flushed with just my plain old water straight out of the tap which has a high pH. Their pH is still low and they are looking very nutrient defecient. What can I do to save them?? how should I water? I was thinking maybe watering with straight purified drinking water from the supermarket then alternating with my tap water + nutes (this has a lower pH).. would this stabilize the pH?? The purified drinking water probably has a high pH.. I think maybe it would raise the pH of my soil, then I would give them the lower pH + nute water the next watering to lower the pH for their uptake so they are getting the full range of pH. Any advice??

xm177e2 Reviewed by xm177e2 on 09-03-2009. pH problems.. read lots of info, still need help! Your Equipment: .1) Type and wattage of lights. 250w MH .2) Distance from tops? was very close.. <1 ft, I raised it up to 2ft this week .3) Reflector type? enclosed .4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? yes .5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? yes .6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 24/0 250w MH conversion in an HPS ballast Your medium: .7) Specific brand and type of soil, FFOF straight out of the bag Rating: 5

[Rusty Trichome]

Hey everyone, I'm new here and this is my first grow.

Hey, welcome.

Your Equipment:
.1) Type and wattage of lights. 250w MH
.2) Distance from tops? was very close.. <1 ft, I raised it up to 2ft this week

Likely too far away. Why did you raise it?

18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? I started doing this yesterday.. a very small dose of FF grow big misted on the leaves out from under the light, placed under the light when they dried

Good technique, but foliar feeding a stressed plant is usually a good way to compound the problem. A few exceptions, but generally is the case.

I decided to buy a cheap milwaukee test pen. This was a big mistake. I properly stored and calibrated the pen, but always wondered why its readings didn't coincide with my liquid test.

Temperatures affect ph pen readings. This might be the begining of the issue, as to be accurate, you need to test the liquids at the same temps every time. The Milwaukee calibrating solution you mentioned have a chart for this on every packet. (or is it a bottle of calib. solution...?)

I first noticed something was up when I had to add about 12 drops of pH down to a gallon of tap water to get the pen to read in the 6.5-7.0 range. With the liquid test kit, the indicator solution would turn proper color after 2 drops of pH down per gallon. I trusted the pen instead.

Did you put the batteries in, facing the wrong direction? Did you get the circuitry inside the pen wet at some point? Did you drop the pen? Did you need to replace the batteries? Did you remove the electrode at some point, and put it in backwards? Did cleaning the crap off of the electrode help?
If the answers are no to all...likely you let the electrode dry-out, and the electrode will need to be replaced.

Quit checking the runoff with the aquarium test kit. It doesn't do anything but confuse the issue. The liquid depends on a color-coded result. With the runoff being tinted...it skews the results. Guessing the proper ph reading isn't a good idea, nor is it even close to accurate.

FFOF is pre-buffered, but after all your attempts to rectify the ph issue, it might be a tad...what's the word...unstable? ...unusable? Would consider a transplant.

Use your aquarium test kit to determine ingoing water ph, and adjust till it say's you are in range. (twords the high range if nutrient day) After adjusting the water, add nutes. From that point on, your ph test kit is done.
Guessing and assuming are bad habits to get into. Ditch the pen till you either get it fixed, or till you get another one.

When using a commercial potting mix, doubtful you need to worry about runoff ph till nearly mid-flower. (when the buffering agent in the potting mix starts to diminish) Some compost mixes (which isn't a potting mix) are pre-buffered to a lower ph. FFOF is properly balanced.

Did you leave the AzaMax on the leaves, or rinse 'em off afterwards?

Guesswork will make every grow an adventure. (or a horror show)

[ditdotter]

They make calibration solutions in 4.0 and 7.0 ph with the 4.0 being the most important because you are testing mostly for acid. I keep a supply on hand of both and check my meter at least one time a week or anytime I think there may be some reason to doubt the reading i'm getting. The reason being ph'ing the water is one of the most important aspects of getting good growth. Most tap water that I have seen will test 7.0 or higher and will vary slightly from day to day. The ph of water will even change from house to house on the same street. This makes it very difficult to tell someone how much ph down should be going into their water.
Fox Farms Ocean Forest is a little hot and I would have skipped the Grow Big for the first month or at the most a 1/3 dose once a week. If you think about it the plants you have are really just seedlings not full grown adults so why feed them like adults. When you were born did you start off eating rib eye steaks and baked potatoes or was it more like breast milk?
Since you are just starting out write down everything you do and observe what happens. Learn from your mistakes and each grow will get better. Six months from now you will laughing at some of the things you did. That's the fun part of what we do and the most rewarding.

[xm177e2]

Hey, welcome.

Likely too far away. Why did you raise it?

One of my plants leaf margins were curling upwards and the temps were too high at the canopy. Also, my plants wont all fit under the 250w anymore unless its high up.. I am waiting for a 400w to be delivered

Good technique, but foliar feeding a stressed plant is usually a good way to compound the problem. A few exceptions, but generally is the case.


Temperatures affect ph pen readings. This might be the begining of the issue, as to be accurate, you need to test the liquids at the same temps every time. The Milwaukee calibrating solution you mentioned have a chart for this on every packet. (or is it a bottle of calib. solution...?)

Thanks for the tip, but I have been testing water that is of the same temp every time

Did you put the batteries in, facing the wrong direction? Did you get the circuitry inside the pen wet at some point? Did you drop the pen? Did you need to replace the batteries? Did you remove the electrode at some point, and put it in backwards? Did cleaning the crap off of the electrode help?
If the answers are no to all...likely you let the electrode dry-out, and the electrode will need to be replaced.

Pen came with batteries installed, I have been very careful with the pen, never removed electrode, always stored it with water in the cap, it did not dry out at all

Quit checking the runoff with the aquarium test kit. It doesn't do anything but confuse the issue. The liquid depends on a color-coded result. With the runoff being tinted...it skews the results. Guessing the proper ph reading isn't a good idea, nor is it even close to accurate.

Acually, my runoff water is crystal clear.. it is very easy to read with the aquarium test kit.. it turned red which was easily visible and as far as I could tell, not skewed

FFOF is pre-buffered, but after all your attempts to rectify the ph issue, it might be a tad...what's the word...unstable? ...unusable? Would consider a transplant.

Yes, the pH is now certainly unstable.. but with all the stress and shock to the plants, i dont wanna risk a transplant. I am a begginner and I already killed a plant trying to transplant it. This and I cant even afford a new bag of soil at this point (grow has me flat broke at the moment)

Use your aquarium test kit to determine ingoing water ph, and adjust till it say's you are in range. (twords the high range if nutrient day) After adjusting the water, add nutes. From that point on, your ph test kit is done.
Guessing and assuming are bad habits to get into. Ditch the pen till you either get it fixed, or till you get another one.

Pen is officially ditched.. although had I not tested the runoff of the soil, I wouldn't have known what was causing my problem

When using a commercial potting mix, doubtful you need to worry about runoff ph till nearly mid-flower. (when the buffering agent in the potting mix starts to diminish) Some compost mixes (which isn't a potting mix) are pre-buffered to a lower ph. FFOF is properly balanced.

Again, since my plants were showing signs of a serious pH issue, I think it was a good idea that I tested the runoff, otherwise I wouldn't have known what causing the issue

Did you leave the AzaMax on the leaves, or rinse 'em off afterwards?

Left it on once, didnt seem to hurt them.. it was a very low dose. The second time they were rinsed.

Guesswork will make every grow an adventure. (or a horror show)

Tell me about it I am sick of all this guess work with this stupid aquarium test kit, and I cannot afford ANY pH meter at the current time. I cant tell if the water is supposed to be yellow, green, yellowish green or greenish yellow :wtf:

Thank you for your help, but this still didnt quite answer my question.. how can i rememdy the problem with my waterings?? what should I do? I do not want to keep using pH down if my soil is so acidic, even if my water needs it to be in the correct range. Should I just water with high pH water from now on and alternate adding nutes every other watering? Liek I said, transplanting is not really something I wanna do, especially this far into it. Is there any other way I can solve this problem?

[xm177e2]

Hmm I cant edit my previous post, so I will post again. I just watered two of the plants because the pots were getting light. One of them, first I gave a little straight filtered tap water just to check a few drops of runoff. The tap water was greenish yellow when it went it.. and the runoff (which was as clear as the water I gave it) was actually a much darker green, so the soil pH must have gone up. I gave the plant 1/2 strength nutes. I watered a second plant as well, gave it straight pHed tap water and the runoff was slightly more acidic than the water I fed it.. but much closer to the range I am looking for than it was a week ago. I also gave this plant 1/2 strength grow big but I added 2 drops of pH up to the mix. Sadly because of the flushes, and different drying times.. my watering schedule is all off, I can't water them all on the same day. I am gonna watch the plants and continue to give them properly pHed water. When the others dry out I will test their runoff and water/feed accordingly. After I gave the 2 plants nutes today, I noticed that my runoff water was coming out the exact same pH as it went in, the soil was not buffering it at all.

[DOUGAL25]

Quit checking the runoff with the aquarium test kit. It doesn't do anything but confuse the issue. The liquid depends on a color-coded result. With the runoff being tinted...it skews the results. Guessing the proper ph reading isn't a good idea, nor is it even close to accurate.

I collect my soil run off then strain it through a coffee filter before testing with an aquarium test kit. The filtered run off water comes out almost completely clear.
:stoned:

[xm177e2]

I collect my soil run off then strain it through a coffee filter before testing with an aquarium test kit. The filtered run off water comes out almost completely clear.
:stoned:

My runoff comes out crystal clear straight from the soil. It wasnt like this at first, but ever since the flushes, it has been crystal clear. I'm hoping that properly pHed water and nutrients will help my plants.. but I'm not counting on it.

[carinia]

I think your plants really look pretty cute yo. Just showing signs of heat and ph stress.

What were your runoff ph's? For all those waterings. Are you in the danger zone? Im not familiar with liquid tests so I dont know what the colors correspond to.

Also, dont assume your soil is not buffering at all just because your ph was the same going out as it was going in. Could be your soil was very near to that ph already!

Oh, and youll be a lucky gardener that has all your plants on the exact same watering schedule. I do a constant grow, and its a headache trying to keep track of everyone!

[xm177e2]

I think your plants really look pretty cute yo. Just showing signs of heat and ph stress.

What were your runoff ph's? For all those waterings. Are you in the danger zone? Im not familiar with liquid tests so I dont know what the colors correspond to.

Also, dont assume your soil is not buffering at all just because your ph was the same going out as it was going in. Could be your soil was very near to that ph already!

Oh, and youll be a lucky gardener that has all your plants on the exact same watering schedule. I do a constant grow, and its a headache trying to keep track of everyone!

The runoff pH when it was low was in the 4-5 range. The runoff is now higher.. in fact one of the plants I watered today actually had a higher runoff than the water I gave it. I'm just going to water them with consistently pHed water from now on and alternate, pHed water, nutes (with slightly higher pH) and see what happens. One problem is that my water has way too much chlorine, I guess I will have to start letting it sit out over a night or two then lower its pH before watering. I think the high chlorine content of my tap is what caused the initial yellow of the leaf tips. The foliar feedings dont seem to be hurting them, the leaves look a little bit more normal around the edges since I started. I am keeping the light backed off for now, it is not enough light and they are stretching and barely growing, but my 400w should be showing up fairly soon and I will be able to keep that a fair enough distance from the canopy while still getting enough lumens to the plants. I'm attaching another picture.. but the camera never seems to show the problems, it makes them look much nicer than they really do. Most of the plants (except for one) have very pale yellowish leaves and look like they are exhibiting the early stages of chlorosis. I know, they are small for a lil over a month old, but for all the problems I have, I am surpised they are even still alive

[420barista]

Wow I feel your Situation,
First off Ph is sometimes difficult to deal with as your experiencing.
I also have the Milwakee ph-600 pen paid like 20-25 for it delivered off of e-bay and I like it. I also got a bottle of General Hydroponics 7.0 calibration solution and it also serves as a storage solution. The pen works really well but does need to occasional tweek(calibration) mabey once or twice a week. but once its dialed in its great. I also have the general hydroponics ph test kit. but i ditched that after seeing my nutrient solution when mixed resembles a tea like color and thats at 1/4 strength. But my point is a color test kit is useless because you need to check the nutrient solution after you add the nutrient's to the water and thats why ya need the ph meter. I never tried FF and dont know if you have the same color change as I do. but if you do for now try to calibrate the ph pen with your color ph test kit. get your water use the test kit for a reading and then use the pen in the same water and with the little blue screwdriver it came with dial it in to the color test kits reading. Mind you doing it this way is not as accurate but you will get your pen back in range and be able to fix your problem, do this till you can get some calibration solution and for the ph-600 milwakee says you need a 7.01 cal solution which i cant see why since it only reads to the tenth not the hundreth. Like I said earlier i got the GH 7.0 cal solution and i swear by it all.