Quote Originally Posted by Ramulux
I do not really understand what you mean by this or what it has to do with the quote it is referencing.

"If a public option is created, that does not mean that people are going to have to give up their current insurance and go on the public plan. If you are happy with your current insurance plan, a public option is not going to effect you in any way." If your employer stops providing coverage you WILL have to give up your current coverage.

You are right dental is not included, I did not mean to write that. However, I do not understand what you mean when you say I will have to pay thousands to get on the public plan. I am well aware that it is not completely free, but I know its not going to cost thousands of dollars.

you know this?????????You better have a talk with Max Baucus then. The fine for not buying insurance if your family income is 60k is set to be about $3600

First of all, there are at least 46.3 million uninsured in this country. That is more than the combined populations of 24 smaller states. So how do you propose we get these people covered?
I don't. 12 million illegals, 10 million people that are only temporarily uninsured due to job changes or other short term circumstances. Another 6 million that choose to not take the employer plan.

It is also not going to cost trillions, it is going to cost $900 billion over the next 10 years, the majority of which will pay for itself by getting rid of wasteful medical related spending.

If you bet your life on this you will be dead. The Fed has NEVER been correct in ANY prediction of cost on anything. They have underestimated EVERY time

That is also not including the billions that are going to be saved by simply putting the uninsured on an insurance plan so that they can receive preventive care and not cost the state thousands of dollars when they end up in the ER and cant pay for it and end up in debt.

This has repeatedly been debunked. Preventive care does not save money since it is given to everybody and everybody would not come down with the illness.

Yeah, and then you go into debt. Over 60% of all the bankruptcies in America stem from medical bills. That is thousands of people who's lives are ruined because they got sick and could not afford insurance. No matter how you look at that statistic, it is fucked and at the very least a sign that something is not right with our current health care system. So yeah, nobody is going to drag you out of the ER your just going to have to spend years working to pay back the bills. I also never claimed that Emergency rooms denied people care.



Right, because the founding fathers were psychics who could read the future and know everything that this country was going to go through for the next 220 years. It is called an amendment dude.

Yes it is, I agree with you. But the Fed is not trying to amend the Constitution, they are trying to change it without an amendment.

Things change, the world evolves, and the American government needs to evolve with it. I am not gonna bash the constitution, because it is an amazing document, but it does not have all of the answers.

It has a mechanism spelled out specifically in the document to address this. It does have all the answers!!!!!

Do you think that people who are 18 should not be able to vote? Do you think you should be denied the right to vote if you cant pay a poll tax? Do you think the president should be able to run for as many terms as they want? If you said no to any of those things, you are against the constitution as it was originally framed. They are called amendments and they are what happen when our government realizes that the constitution is not perfect.

They do not just "happen", THERE IS A PROCESS SPELLED OUT IN THE CONSTITUTION. Ask yourself why they do not follow that process?



"A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual doom."
Martin Luther king Jr.

Sounds like a mixing of church and state to me. And I am not sure I agree with it anyway.

"An individual has not started living until he can rise above the narrow confines of his individualistic concerns to the broader concerns of all humanity."
Martin Luther king Jr.

This is a choice to be made by the individual, not forced upon him by some bureaucrat. That is tyranny.


"We all declare for liberty; but in using the same word we do not all
mean the same thing. With some the word liberty may mean for each
man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while
with others, the same word may mean for some men to do as they
please with other men, and the product of other men's labor. Here are
two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name
- liberty. And it follows that each of the things is, by the respective parties,
called by two different and incompatible names - liberty and tyranny."
Abraham lincoln
I don't agree with Abe. When the Gov't forces somebody to give up the product of their labor (money) for the benefit of "other men", THAT IS NOT LIBERTY.