New Induction Grow light

[knna]

Close the thread it's trashed. :wtf:

Ken

Probably true that the thread, that started very interesting, was trashed at some point. But you have been posting, together with khyberkitsune, since it was trashed, highjacking it just in the search of profit for your business.

Thread started by RackitMan asking for new flourescent induction lights. Bubas chime in with very enriching data about them and started a good debate about the possibilities of the new tecnology. He wanted to do some serious tests to check how it works. He started them, but unfortunatelly he only reported results from the starting progress.

At some point, he stopped posting (17 March of this year, more than 5 months ago). Still some other growers tried to continue the topic with interesting posts (Steveat1, squearepush3r, vannewb and some others), but khyberkitsune closed any debate negating any other arguments solely based on being an "expert" working in this field and knowing much more than any other one, when his arguments were not convincing. That is what trashed the thead, people with interesting contributions gone, on the last months nothing new appeared, only khyberkitsune talk, with no tests, no pics, no good info....nothing.

My purpose when I posted to unmask khyberkitsune is to give possibility to those who were aporting to the thread and gone when he closed all oportunities of constructive debate to come back and be able to learn something from people actually experimenting with induction lights, no vendor's BS.

[jacksparrow]

knna i also read this thread a couple times through and i really have no clue about all of this lighting stuff. yes khyber sounds like he knows what he is talking about, but you seem to think otherwise. i have been searching for an led light to buy, actually a couple, for around a month in a half, but havent found a site that im willing to invest my money in yet.

so knna my question is do you know a good led grow light source. i have checked out prosource, growledhydro, advancedled, and many others. a year ago i actually bought a 90w sunshinesystem ufo and it vegged really well buuuuttttt like everyone else i didnt get to flower it fully bc i was in appartment and had to move.

so i guess this question goes out to anyone who knows where to get a quality led, and please no one say friggin e-bay. also i talked to some at one prosoucre and he said that like 3w leds are a sham. he said you dont get more light penetration you get less? he said that the best leds a high quality 1w diodes.

someone give me some direction im so lost. everyone tells you something different. after this im done rambling but i have an led or i guess induction ,which im not real comfortable with buying at this point, bc of the area im growing in and i wanna be "low-profile". HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vannewb]

... i have been searching for an led light to buy, actually a couple, for around a month in a half, but havent found a site that im willing to invest my money in yet.

so knna my question is do you know a good led grow light source. ...

... which im not real comfortable with buying at this point, bc of the area im growing in and i wanna be "low-profile". HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jacksparrow i'm in the same position as you as long with dozens or hundreds of other prospective purchasers.

There's no consensus yet on LEDs. Lots of convincing looking marketing, and some people have done decent grows with certain LEDs. But you seem to have to adjust your style for the lower heat of LEDs, e.g., move the plants closer, water less, etc.

In another forum seems to recommend KNNA building your own LED lamp for best spectrum & efficiency. A bit daunting for regular folks especially when the best mix of led spectrums is still being debated.

Induction seems like a potentially useful half-measure... less power than HID, but compensated for by targetted spectrum. The issue is: do the currently available power+spectrum combinations live up to the hype? Very little info right now. All we know for sure is that 6400k induction lights are poor for flowering, and that Khyber thinks he can get m-land to produce a much better spectrum than their current bi-spectrum units.

Unfortunately, the people who have spent the money on these units so far have not reported their results.

[knna]

The problem is LED industry is very inmature yet. And the related to horticulture, its barely a new born. First product on a industry usually are not good or very expensive. As industry matures, product go improving and competence drive prices down.

And it goes together with general LED industry fight to improve perfomance/price.

I would say that thing has reached a point that I expect good comercial horticultural LED light to be released from next year, able to be cost effective against other type of lightings.

Right now, LEDs can only be cost effective on small setups, IMHO. There are situations (grow area cooled by AA, for example) where they can be cost effective on larger dimensions, however.

But If you can wait a while, do it. Next year it is to expect you will have some good lamps to choose at decent prices per watt.

I dont know any comercial lamp good enough I may recomend it, and less with a good price per watt.

Thats why I recomend people to build them, but not all the people have the will, skills or time to do it. Most people using LED lamps right now are either experienced growers that want to experiment with them and help in the development of the new lighting paradigma, or new growers that, once they have to make an investment on lighting, decided to spend a little more thinking on the long term. Second case is partially a good choice (small grows) and partially not because they was somewhat fooled by marketing BS so they expected way more than actually these lamps can produce.

Induction light, on the other hand, arnt really new at all. Its just some chinese manufacturers started some ago to produce units for horticulture (both for spectrum and power range) at decent prices. I feel actual perfomance is far from claims, but I dont know for sure. Thats why I was interested at the start of this thread, looking for feedback from people using them. Although probably there is a lot of BS too around induction lamps, one thing is better than with LED lamps:

LEDs avalaible have a very large gap of efficiencies, and as manufacturers never inform exactly of the model and bin used (and I believe little when they do it), buying them is kind of a lottery. You can get an unit working decently or directly garbage valid as much for vegging.

On the other hand, fluorescent induction is more mature and its intrinsically a technology that result on small differences on efficiency between top brands and chinese copies (many times, top brands subcontract manufacturing with them). Thus, maybe not satisfy some claims, but at least you know they work decently. So if you get them for cheap, that is possible, its a decent option.

jacksparrow, I didnt said that khyber si ignorant. He is somebody that has read about lighting and other growing related topics, and knows more than the average grower about some topics. But he closed a debate with the argument of being an expert working on the field and its obviously false. He put it in his signature and that is dishonest. I felt in the duty, because I have the knowledge required to notice it, of warning other people about him not being who pretend. Thats all. I dont have any personal against him and dont have any problem he continues giving his opinion and sharing with other growers as far as do it without lies that may mislead other growers. And I would like to pass over it and keep the thread on topic.

[jacksparrow]

i appreciate the help guys. i know im getting off the topic of induction lighting but i am new to this forum and have some questions. the reason im really looking into leds or even possibly induction is bc im doing an attic grow, dont worry i have the heating and cooling issue already taken care of, but im worried about flir. see, i dont want to use the "ordinary grow bulb" bc im worried the heat signature will put a huge bullseye on my place and im def. wanting to avoid that. if i did use a bulb like a high pressure sodium bulb could i vent out of my room into the unused attic space to have a more uniform heat signature or is my signature unavoidable? or should i stick with led or induction? or should i just give up on the attic? any and all input welcome. i promise after this i wont get this thread off topic anymore. thanks for having patience with me.

[lbrends]

hi guys,i have been running the 400w bi-spectrum super grow light for 2 months now, just went to flower last week, biggest problem i see is the foot print is so small,and the reflector is crap i took the glass out and it looks like it is much brighter and covers way more area.one question i have is. if the one side is 6400k [blue] how come my t5 6400k is pure white [to my eye's]should not both the [induction] and [t5] 6400k be the same colour?......luke

[knna]

hi guys,i have been running the 400w bi-spectrum super grow light for 2 months now, just went to flower last week, biggest problem i see is the foot print is so small,and the reflector is crap i took the glass out and it looks like it is much brighter and covers way more area.one question i have is. if the one side is 6400k [blue] how come my t5 6400k is pure white [to my eye's]should not both the [induction] and [t5] 6400k be the same colour?......luke

Very interesting about the reflector. When I saw the pics I thought it will reflect many light back to the own lamp.

But if you take out the reflector, the more light yet is going to go upwards, not towards plants. ¿? How did you managed to avoid it?

The difference you notice between the two 6400K is mostly due you are not comparing them with other lights of other very different tone. If you do,you still will notice some difference, but will look very similar.

Its related to human's eye ability to adaptation and our brain ability to change the "white balance", as cameras. There are thousands different spectrums able to get same CCT rating (xxxx K). Although overall color tone alone is almost the same, chromatic reproduction isnt, it depends of how is the exact spectrum that generated that given CCT. So as light is reflected back, you notice the difference and one 6400K may appear greenish regarding the other, for example, more bluish (but if you put a 2700K lamp at side, you will notice both 6400K as mostly bluish).

On the other hand, there is tolerances between the rating and the actual CCT emitted, which increases with use (age of lamp). If actually both lamps are emiting at 6550K and 6300K, example perfectly possible, difference would be way more noticiable.

jacksparrow, I didnt answer because I really dont know what LEO finds using FLIR cameras and how they use them. Probably what they look for is for heated air column being exhausted the house and some room being hotter than others. The better insulated the house walls, the less difference in temperature between walls of different rooms they will notice. Aswell, materials reflecting back IR on the inner walls minimize observed temperature for the outside. Of course, the closer the temperature of the growroom to the rest of the hosue, the more difficult to notice something, and its way easier to achieve with an smaller heat load. If you grow on a cabinet not along a wall that looks to the outside, and the temp of the room is similar to the rest of the house, likely is very difficult that any FLIR camera reveals anything. If htere is no hot air being exhausted to the outside coupled with that, I believe FLIR detection shouldnt be an issue.

[oldmac]

Hello knna,

Long time no see....cause I was away for awhile. Glad to see you still comming around here, the average board IQ goes up significantly when you are around. :thumbsup:

Very interesting about the reflector. When I saw the pics I thought it will reflect many light back to the own lamp.

You hit one of the major problems with these induction bulbs, they are huge at least a T-12 and I remember the one from 25 years ago seemed even bigger. They can't help but to reflect back on themselves. Wasn't worth growing with back then and I still think they are not worth growing with.

On the other hand, interesting lights comming from both LG Electronics and Luxim corporation. New generation of plasma light, can be true "full spectrum" with great watt/lumen conversion. Just the prices need to come down. And decent grow light company needs apply them properly.

Take care, see ya around.

[vannewb]

On the other hand, interesting lights comming from both LG Electronics and Luxim corporation. New generation of plasma light, can be true "full spectrum" with great watt/lumen conversion. Just the prices need to come down. And decent grow light company needs apply them properly.

When do the lights come out?

How long til they're tested?

Always lots of exciting-sounding light technologies just around the corner. But almost never does someone independent make a decent comparison of their grow performance. I guess because they hardly ever live up to the hype.

[oldmac]

Hi there vannewb,

Luxim is already shipping the acutal working part to other mfgs now. For grow lights with these, see Chameleon Grow Systems who even has 2- LiFi lights combined with some LEDs and is asking almost $7k for it, system VI I think it is called. But their designs looks like crap to me. Stray Light Optical Technologies is building reef illuminaries for the aquarium market, these actually look better for growing, but they have a strange degree kelvin, they may or may not work. Claims that 288 watts is equal to 400-465 watts of HID is what Luxim is talking. Oh and without the heat. We will see soon.