Quote Originally Posted by headshake
i'm not referring to our economy per se, i'm referring to the fact capitalism is our government.
i can see where you might be a bit confused. after decades of creeping socialism within the circles of government, it's difficult to tell where economy ends and government begins. the heart of both capitalism and conservative thought is that there is a definite line between economic considerations and the powers of government, a line that government should only cross when business inflicts damage on others. this is the same line that exists (or should exist) between government and the private lives of its citizens.

if you believe our economy is egalitarian then you are sadly mistaken. there might be the false pretense of egalitarianism, but that's not the way it is.
no, our economy is far from egalitarian. the market was long ago infected by the disease of a spreading bureaucracy. instead of protecting citizens from the abuse of business, our government has decided to micromanage the affairs of business as a preventative measure to assure that abuses cannot take place. this has shown itself to do nothing more than place the ability to abuse in the very hands of those who have the most power to do so, the government itself. once again you have confused the concept of capitalism with the bastardized version practiced under the control of a corrupt bureaucracy.

as pure concept, capitalism places control of the means of production in the hands of the people themselves. how much more egalitarian can you get? with a government that is willing to stay within its roll of "protector of the rights of the people", enforcing those laws that keep us from being abused by the powerful, it is completely possible for such a concept to thrive and for all the people to prosper if they are willing to labor and take the needed risks. though failure is undoubtedly a part of that equation, it is also a necessary part of life.

america is controlled by the large corporations. the large corporations are the ones the make the laws of our country. lobbying is legal vote buying.
now we come to the part of the sermon where we must ask, " where does the sin lie?" does the blame lie with a businessman who purchases a product freely offered or with the political animals who steal under the color of law the power of their constituents and package it for sale? the laws are enacted not by corporations, but by the very representatives you elected. you have placed men in power who are so corrupt that they can be easily swayed by a few pieces of silver.

.....harassing people over rights which they have, that are "inalienable" is purely capitalistic. it might only be an underlying tone here, but it's there. where do you think the money comes from to pay the mayor of shreveport? why else would this be an issue?
though i'm sure that worthy mayor might well have been elected thanks to the funding of businesses seeking favor, his paycheck consists of taxes wrung from the citizens.

once again you seem to confuse the meaning of capitalism. consider the term "totalitarian" and you might be closer to the truth.

.....it's only human nature to consolidate what power?
one should never confuse what is truly important with the pedestrian concerns of the marketplace. money is merely a representation of one form of power. the power to do and say what you please, the power to keep hold of your own possessions, the power to move freely and believe what you will; these are of far more import than materialistic wealth. no one seems to value these freedoms (after all, they're free. it's right there in the name.) until they are gone.

.....the bottom line is that everything that happens in this country happens over money. so the very problem with the system is capitalism.
money, money, money, money. ya'll are so concerned with money. in this richest country on earth, where even the poor have a better life than all but the richest of many nations, all you can see are the dollars and cents. the fact that capitalism has enabled us to accumulate such wealth seems to have totally escaped you. all that most of you can see is what you don't have, but feel entitled to. do you honestly believe that greed is a monster created by capitalism alone?

i'm not a wealthy man and i'll probably work until the day i die, but i'd rather have freedom than baubles. i'd rather not be told by the all powerful state how far i may rise and how much i can accumulate. i'd rather have the freedom to fail than the mediocrity of an enforced comfortable poverty. a free market allows such a life. all else is slavery.

Quote Originally Posted by yokinazu
capitalism is not evil. socialism is not evil. no form of gov't in itself is evil.
this is not a matter of good and evil, but of which system is more prone to corruption. no corporation has an army and a police force (unless it is allowed such by a corrupt government), but these are the tools of the state. no business has the ability to enact law (unless it is allowed such by a corrupt government), but these arbitrary rules are how the state bends us to its will. no businessman has the power to send a man off to prison for the rest of his life (unless he is allowed such by a corrupt government), but this is the threat we live under if we refuse the whims of the state.

now tell me, which system has the greater capacity for evil.

.....the reason i started this was because i heard that this mayor actually said screw the constitution, screw the second amendment.
i'm sure it was nothing more than a momentary lapse into honesty. the constitution is a document meant to protect the people from the abuses of government and the bureaucrats job is to gather power by any means from those below him. i'm sure you can see that it is in the best interests of such political animals to shred the constitution whenever possible.