Procyon vs UFO LED

[macnasty]

Hello and hi,

Does any kind gardener have the scoop on this here comparison?

What I'd like to know is how these much more affordable 90W UFO's compare with the much more expensive Procyon 100's.

While I do expect the Procyon's to outperform their lesser competitor, perhaps this 'lesser' is not so less?

I don't expect anyone to give an answer who has done a scientific, side by side experiment in a NASA laboratory, but any advice from some UFO experienced growers would be thirstily gobbled down.

Weezard, you venerable man of the glowing diode, I'm currently in the process of purchasing a few from a seller you once recommended, a certain small bear....perhaps you've once pondered some such comparison...any thoughts?

my space is a 3x3 closet. I've read WT's first LED experiment with the procyon's in their entirety.

Thank you.

macnasty Reviewed by macnasty on 07-03-2009. Procyon vs UFO LED Hello and hi, Does any kind gardener have the scoop on this here comparison? What I'd like to know is how these much more affordable 90W UFO's compare with the much more expensive Procyon 100's. While I do expect the Procyon's to outperform their lesser competitor, perhaps this 'lesser' is not so less? I don't expect anyone to give an answer who has done a scientific, side by side experiment in a NASA laboratory, but any advice from some UFO experienced growers would be thirstily Rating: 5

[ledtime]

While I have not tried a procyon, I am currently testing a custom dual blue wavelength UFO that I had made in China. So far it is working flawlessly in veg. The plants are really loving it. The 2nd part of my test is working with another LED light I had made for flowering. It's a 120W version that is dominitely 660nm with the two blue wavelengths that make up my veg light mixed in. Should be interesting.

Depending on how many plants you plan on growing the UFO will work. I have three plants each in their own 5gal bucket and they are doing great!

I wish the light spread was a little better as the LED's need to be closer to the plant to get some penetration and light density. 3'x3' is most def the max I would say the 90W can handle.

That is also why I upped the light to the 120W version for flower as it will cover more area and penetrate a little better. It's also rectangular in shape giving me a little more width in light coverage. With the way these three are growing I'm going to need it!

[macnasty]

Thanks for the input ledtime, I'm glad to hear that your LED experiments are working out for you.

I plan to use (if I do end up purchasing them) 2 of these 90 W lights for approximately a 5' x 1.5' area. The add says the lights are 80=Red and 10=Blue. The reds are 630 nm and the blues are 460 nm. I see that yours are 660 however. How do you think the 630's will fare?

My ultimate goal is to replace a 400W HPS I'm currently using. I understand that I may not get the same penetration with these lights, but I'm just very uncertain how much exactly will be compromised. I would really like a little more reassurance before making this $400 investment.

ledtime, the seller is also an ebayer who is shipping these products from china, and after reading posts by members of this site warning me about purchasing cheap china brand goods, I'm a little uneasy. But I think those warnings were directed against those low wattage lamps that have hundreds of led lights on them, and not the lights I'm concerned with here. If those 120 W lights are working for you, would you mind sharing with me, and others if they are interested, where to purchase them? The Procyon's are simply too expensive, so any suggestions on an alternative is very much welcomed. Thanks.

[oldmac]

I have owned 2 Procyons that I used for vegging and keeping my mom plants happy. And they worked very well at that for at least 6 months, but I decided to experiment with them for flowering after seeing WT's grow log. They worked very well at it, much better then I had thought was possible when I bought them. Down side is cost like you point out.

The UFO knockoffs, such as Weezard got and uses, seem to work very well for him, and the price makes it a very attractive as an alternative to the procyon (please forgive me Ryan).

Ledtime has come up with a great idea in getting LED lights made to his specs and at a good price I might add. This also seems like a good cost per unit deal vs. procyon.

The best way I've found to compensate for the lack of light penertration is to grow SOG style plants abt 18" or less. You just need to pack more of them in the space you have (it's all about a continuous canopy). Sure maybe you'll only get 5 grams/plant or so starting out, but if you had a 4x4 space with 138plants.....thats 690 grams (1 1/2#). And with a little tuning, and extras like CO2 and Liquid Light, you could get 7-8 gr/plant.

I have found that even 2- TI ProBlooms are not quite enough to cover a 4'x4' area and thats 660watts of LED. I am currently experimenting with an additional 340w of 4' T5s to create a hybred light for a total of 1000watts, I don't like it cause the mix of the two is not great. Outer rows see T5 only, center sees LED mostly and a few rows get a mix. My next experiment is to use the 2 TIs together on a light rail to try and spread out light distribution.
BTW the hybred LED/T5 kicks the ass of a 1000w HPS in side by side trails.

Sorry, did not mean to go on so long. I'm old and it's late and I'm ramblin'.
Just need to add this, IMHO a procyon 100 or 90w UFO can not and will not replace a 400w HPS. Output of the procyon is closer to a 400w MH (and that's pushing it) and a UFO even less.

[macnasty]

ok, just looked at a chart that shows peak chlorophyl-a absorption at about 430 and 660 nm, peak chlorophyl-b at about 470-480 nm, and peak carotenoid absorption at about 460 and 500 nm. It seems that the lights I'm considering on purchasing do not meet the chlorophyl-a absorption levels, as the level of absorption dropped significantly if the wavelength isn't spot on. Never mind that I haven't the slightest clue what these terms mean, I only hear that these are very important variables to consider. That said, shopping for the right LED light is definitely complicated, especially when all I want to do is grow some nice plants.

There is a common saying I've heard said many times around these forums, and it goes something like this: too much love can kill a plant - Keep it simple stupid. Perhaps I'm complicating things here...if so, I apologize, but I seem to be falling a victim to clever propaganda schemes fabricated by manufacturers who really don't care so much about providing lights that can grow healthy plants and are bent on making the big dolla.

I know, that sounds like an excuse. I'll dig up some more learnin before i blame anybody....but if you've got suggestions i'm listening. ciao.

[macnasty]

oops..accidentally double posted. site was acting up.

[macnasty]

hey oldmac,

I was hoping your uber-experienced butt would pay a visit. much obliged.

I'm glad you mentioned SOG, because that's exactly what I have in mind. And the CO2 as well. Running an HPS I have some significant heat issues, which disqualifies me from making good use of it, but with LED's I figure I can make up for some of the lack of light power by implementing CO2. And though I've never used it myself, I've heard it can increase yields by about 20%. If that number is realistic, that means I'll only have to provide 80% of the light I'm currently pumping with my HPS to get the same results. One step closer already, and the LED hasn't even turned on yet!

I'm happy to hear that the hybrid T5/LED puts the equivalent HID to shame. Another reason I want to switch to LED is that I can distribute the light much more evenly across the entire canopy than with a single light.

About your last point; thanks for clarifying for me from an authoritative source the truth that a procyon is not equivalent to a 400 W HID. To tell you the truth, I never believed that drum racketting anyway. My question is, is it reasonable to assume that 2 of these 90W lights would equal a single 400 W HID? If so, I am sold. Perhaps I'll throw in some T8's for good measure, or some T5's if I can find some.

In sum: the even light distribution, [potentially] lower energy consumption, and opportunity to utilize CO2 without the nuisance of running a continuous exhaust seems irrestable to a learning grower such as myself.

[crabbyback]

I've got procyons that I combine with 20K of T5. Works beautifully. But oldmac is right, one Procyon will not replace a 400w HPS, it may possibly replace a 250w HPS.

As much as I like my Procyons, I know they are not perfect with the flowering bands, meaning I try to add some kind of supplimental light in those missing areas.

I sometimes run the early part of bloom under LEDs only, to control temps. This was due to a thread where Stinky (I think) discussed stretch during flower and what part temperature and color have on that stretch. I add T5s later in bloom when temp. is not as critical.

I haven't tried the UFO knockoffs, but would not hesitate to try one. I personally would look for the latest generation tri-band with orange added. But, I haven't done my homework on LEDs lately.

[Weezard]

Aloha Stig.

I would have loved to do a UFO vs Procyon grow.
Alas, no can afford a Procyon.

Fortunately, it's been done.
The Procyon wins from all I've gathered.
But, bang for buck begs the question;
"Is it twice as good?"

O. M is spot-on as usual.
I agree with everything he said.
You are in very good hands here.

The dual UFOs are tempting, but maybe read Ledtimes thread for a better plan.
I like what he's doing.

When I used 400W HPS, I was growing in "Supersoil" and had less experience.
Now I do much better with 150W. led light, but I'm growing in DWC and coco so ah dunno what I might get with the HPS under these conditions.
Just can't make a real comparison.
And can't afford to feed and cool the HPS anyway.

That said, I do have 2. 5 gallon, DWC'd, clones going.
One indoors under a 150W. led array, and one under Tropical sunlight.

To my eye the sunlit buds are almost twice as fat.
Just started flower though. (14 days.)
And the days are about 1/2 hour longer outdoors this time of year.
I'm waiting to see what happens when the days get shorter.

If the day ever dawns that my innies match my outies.
I will say that LEDs have arrived.

Weeze,
(The 5th Rutle)

[oldmac]

Yes Craddyback, you have it right that the procyon is closer to a 250HPS, at least when it comes to our "photon whore" mj plant. I have also used LEDs on other plants, such as grape vines, and the difference is not as great.

I had used one of the original TI problooms I now have in a viticulture experiment and it pretty much equalled a 600w HPS, so much so I couldn't wait to use it on mj. I quickly did a "quick and dirty" grow in 2- 120 site EZ-clonners from start to finish (they say you can't grow to compeletion in a cloner, but hey the plants don't know that). Since they took up abt the same area as my previous grape cuttings I thought they'd do better then they actually did do. Difference in light needs of the plant is a major factor.
That was a long explanation to explain and give an excuse to some mfg claims about equivalent light comparisons.

So Crabby, maybe it's not a dumbass plant but it is a whore...for protons.:thumbsup: