Please help! TS form included

[Rusty Trichome]

First thing I thought of when I saw the leaves was H2O2 burn. (still green but crispy leaves) Also looks to me like ph swing (canoeing and twisting of the leaves) and overnute. (browning and leaf margin upturning and slight browning) With using the coco, do you use CalMag or something similar?
Wish I could help more, but I have no hands-on experience with hydro or coco growing. (might I recommend some peat-based soil, lol?)

Takes about three days to see anything positive. Bad shitcan happen overnight.

If this is happening only on the one plant, perhaps it's needs are different than the other two. (different strain?) I'd keep doing what you're doing on the two that are fine...and perhaps lower nute strength on the problem child.

[phatsesh101]

i gave my plants the wrong nutes about two + weeks ago and theyre finally coming round after a over 2 weeks after a transplant and all the older leaves that were effected continued to burn until gone, now shes purdy again.

im not recommending a transplant as mine were dirty girls in organics and i couldnt flush or better it did nothing.

i think rusty got it. and your ph jump could have here sayin wtf

[sergentjunk]

H2O2 burn?? I've never heard of that. Something else to research LOL.
Not that I doubt both suggestions, but how could it be PH swing when it's read stable for the last two weeks? The runoff is always the same as the level I pour in...5.8-6.1. Is that enough to be PH swing or am I missing something? I am NOT using calmag yet, but I need to. I just read, especially using distilled water (which I thought would be safer while adding nutes), that calmag is necessary...I was unaware. I'm stopping off and getting some tonight. It's weird though, all the new growth on the problem plant is ok, and it's still flowering nicely. It's jut the current/older leaves that are starting to get all outta whack. But I fear it may be indicative of something else that if I don't catch, could take the whole plant with it.

They are two different strains. The two good plants are one, the bad is another. So one needing different methods than the other doesn't surprise me and it's been something I've been meaning to ask but spaced it.

I will continue to use the same methods for the two good ones, and try to drive the bad one a little differently.

So to recap if I may ask:

-H2O2 burn...what is it?
-Can it be PH swing if it's always between 5.8-6.1, or am I not understanding that correctly?
-Could the lack of calmag be the total issue?
-Is the fact that the new growth looks good now, but the older fan leaves that are affected mean anything??

I forgot to mention I fed them Botanicare Pro Bloom for flowering if that helps.

Thanks again for the replies, you all rock! Hopefully I'll get this figured out.

*junk

[phatsesh101]

5 days ago ur ph in was 6.5 +- 0.2 now your 5.9 so that is .6 +/- 0.4 but just that .6 can cause probs, hence the different ph levels between peat and coco

as far as the new growth being nicer than the old is a sign of a mobile element deficiancy the reverse is of an immobile deficiancy (ugly new growth) typically but the cause of deficiancy is usually from ph lockout generally as for what elements are mobile and immoblie is your homework for tonight LOL

it might be a reaction to the ph flux and just needs to grow out if everything is

the cal mag may fix if your prob is magnesium def i need to read back

first ph now distilled water ur sheets says tap not distilled :wtf:

[sergentjunk]

5 days ago ur ph in was 6.5 +- 0.2 now your 5.9 so that is .6 +/- 0.4 but just that .6 can cause probs, hence the different ph levels between peat and coco

That is correct. I was balancing the PH around 6.5, then read that coco does better at 5.8-6.1...so I corrected to that. Thanks for reminding me though...a lot has happened in the past week and I forget . But I am glad to know that even a fluctuation of .6 can make an impact. Still new to this "science" and how it all relates to one another.

as far as the new growth being nicer than the old is a sign of a mobile element deficiancy the reverse is of an immobile deficiancy (ugly new growth) typically but the cause of deficiancy is usually from ph lockout generally as for what elements are mobile and immoblie is your homework for tonight LOL

Awesome, don't even know where to begin on that on LOL, but I'll figure it out. I have no problem with homework. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

it might be a reaction to the ph flux and just needs to grow out if everything is

That's sort of what I was thinking, and hoping.

first ph now distilled water ur sheets says tap not distilled :wtf:

I had been, through this whole grow up untill feeding them on sunday, using tap water that has a PPM level of 700. So at the time I filled out the form, yes I was using tap, and only used distilled once to feed(sunday), and a small amount mixed with tap on monday. The first flush I read the runoff at 1400, by the end of the second got it in the high 600's to high 700' depending on the plant. So knowing that I will never get the PPM below 600 using tap water, decided to use distilled for feeding only since tap plus nutes would bring the PPM to 1k or more. I still haven't been able to find a recommended PPM level for coco and the nutes I'm using. For all I know 1400 might be ok, and using 700PPM tap with nutes might still be ok. I don't know. I posted a tapwater thread...here...in the indoor growing section and it was suggested that 600 was high for cloning. Well I'm not now and don't plan on cloning. At this point I'm guessing on what the right PPM is for my setup. I know guessing isn't the right way to do it, but I can't find the right way so I'm going off cumulative reports of other growers and their methods. I've read anywhere between 600 and 1100 is good for flowering. Considering their state at the time, I didn't want to blast them with nutes to bring them up to 1k, kinda wanted to ease them back into the feeding if that makes sense.

Sorry for the confusion regarding tap/distilled Phatesh. But yes, I watered with distilled/nutes once on Sunday, and a small amount of the remaining mix with 2gallons of tap on monday night. PPM runoff Monday was 560...I did nothing last night and planning on water with plain tap tonight. I will update the form to state that I am now using tap for normal watering, and distilled with the nute mix(if I can edit that post). Unless I am able to find some solid PPM info.

Hopefully this all makes sense and I'm not annoying anyone too much LOL. If I am, I understand. Trying to keep these questions to a minimum, but am doing research between postings.

Thanks everyone!

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.

What I was trying to say, is that the soil mix is buffered (usually with lime) to get the mix to buffer to a set ph. In other words...an african violet mix is buffered differently than the cactus mixes, which are buffered differently than the coco mixes, which are buffered different than other mixes from other companies, and so on....Each mix and brand have their own formula, so dialing it in is sometimes a drag, unless you have lime and a ph pen.

If you are trying to fight against the ph of the soil, perhaps adjusting the soil or switching brands may be necessary.

For instance: If the soil is buffered to a 6.0, (which would have less lime than a mix buffered to a 6.8 or 7.0) then even if you add 7.0 water, runoff will be closer to what the soil is buffered to. Perhaps in the range of 6.1 to 6.3 or so, runoff. As the lime depletes in the soil, the buffering fades with it. Adding lime bumps the ph of the soil up.

This is where patience and a slow-go approach comes in handy. Eventually it all falls into place. Making small changes, one at a time will net you the best enlightenment, because you can see the cause and effect results. If you change three things, and it still doesn't work...which thing was the wrong thing?

Getting tired. Hope I got the point across. I think I'm explaining it more complicated than it has to be. :jointsmile:

[sergentjunk]

H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.

What I was trying to say, is that the soil mix is buffered (usually with lime) to get the mix to buffer to a set ph. In other words...an african violet mix is buffered differently than the cactus mixes, which are buffered differently than the coco mixes, which are buffered different than other mixes from other companies, and so on....Each mix and brand have their own formula, so dialing it in is sometimes a drag, unless you have lime and a ph pen.

If you are trying to fight against the ph of the soil, perhaps adjusting the soil or switching brands may be necessary.

For instance: If the soil is buffered to a 6.0, (which would have less lime than a mix buffered to a 6.8 or 7.0) then even if you add 7.0 water, runoff will be closer to what the soil is buffered to. Perhaps in the range of 6.1 to 6.3 or so, runoff. As the lime depletes in the soil, the buffering fades with it. Adding lime bumps the ph of the soil up.

This is where patience and a slow-go approach comes in handy. Eventually it all falls into place. Making small changes, one at a time will net you the best enlightenment, because you can see the cause and effect results. If you change three things, and it still doesn't work...which thing was the wrong thing?

Getting tired. Hope I got the point across. I think I'm explaining it more complicated than it has to be. :jointsmile:

Yep you got the point across. Sorry for the fatigue. I have a tendency to over explain things too...hence my long replies. So I'm keeping this one short. I guess I miss understood the guy at my hydro shop when he said that coco will assimilate to what you put into it. I think I'm miss understanding quite a bit. His statement would lead me to believe that whatever I put in the coco, that's the ph level of the coco...maybe not now. I'm sticking to the one at a time method. So now I will just give them pure balnced 5.9 tap with no nutes and see what happens over the next week or so.

Thanxs Rusty and Phatesh for helping with the latest dilema.
*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Not tired of this thread, but just plain tired. Trying to get the ground ready for some fruit trees and blackberry and grape vines. (yes, they do grow in the desert) But it's friggin hot here, and no backhoe. Sucks the strength right out of ya.

Have you looked through some of the coco growlogs? Might pick-up a few good pointers I'm unable to provide. Could even ask a question or two about their techniques if the thread is still active. Not trying to push ya off on other's, but Dammit Jim, I'm just a soil guy. (sorry, t'was a crappy Star Trek reference)

[sergentjunk]

Not tired of this thread..

OH...no I didn't mean that Rusty! LOL...not at all. I know how hot it is here (I've been working outside too), so I feel ya.

Have you looked through some of the coco growlogs? Might pick-up a few good pointers I'm unable to provide. Could even ask a question or two about their techniques if the thread is still active. Not trying to push ya off on other's, but Dammit Jim, I'm just a soil guy. (sorry, t'was a crappy Star Trek reference)

Funny you should mention that....I found WeedHound's most awesome grow log for Botanicare products that details his feeding schedule and most of what I've been looking for...PPM Levels. I know it's no absolute, but it's a guide. He feeds everyday I think. Crazy. That particular grow was in higromite rocks and the thread was in the hydro section. See my problem (I know,,,I have more than 1 ), is that I keep thinking I have a soil grow...I don't . Coco is considered more hydro than anything. Breaking that thought process of soil is my mistake. Even though I'm putting matter in a pot...it's not soil and shouldn't be treated as such. I stopped on the way home and picked up some CalMag and ClearEx. If we aren't Botanicare shareholders, we should be dammit LOL.

For those of you who have seen that particular log...what's your opinions??
For those of you who haven't...it's here. If anyone gets a chance let me know your thoughts.

This is all very fascinating to me. Makes me want to do it for a living, not just for the weed, but because this is actually fun as shit to me.

Thanks everyone so much. I'll keep updating. Hopefully this will help someone in my situation someday.

*junk

[Rusty Trichome]

Profound revelations are always so...enlightening. :jointsmile:

WeedHound is a knowledgeable grower, and a fine lady. Won't steer ya wrong. :thumbsup: