Second Martian Method attempt

[Dogznova]

All spectrums have a time factor..

Sorry I need to fix this. Some spectrums have Time Rates.

SOD (standard outdoor darkness) has a Time Rate of .8 Not a Time Factor

My bad I was

[Mother]

This is what they look like right now.

First one is both plants, HDF plant on the left, VM on the right
Second one is HDF plant up close
Third one is VM plant up close

[Dogznova]

Mother.... It's looking like those girls have a good start... :thumbsup:

[salmayo]

Now the question is can we get Sal to look at your PAD lighting you got posted and give his estimate on an estimated time factor.

The estimates look good, but these are limited to Surface Time Factors and Affect Time Factors tend to be lower, especially for higher sources for Far Red Radiation such as the Red Inc.'s. (Different canopy location/different spectrum/differenent result).

A helpful reminder is that the Time Factor were researched approaching from the veg not end of flower side of the timing schedules, so the Time Factors used tend to be at a starting point on the veg side. This was done decause growth is present if too much veg is present, while on the other side the plant goes dormant and no growth can be observed.

Hope this helps.

Take Care, Sal.

[Mother]

Hi Sal, you gave me some interesting food for thought... I'll have to digest it a bit.

Here's how they're looking now. I did some lower branch pruning since they weren't getting enough light and were never going to be useful to the plant (or me).

First one is the whole setup, second one is HDF, third one is VM.

[Mother]

I had some space open up elsewhere so I moved the Vanilla Moon plant out, so it's back to the original plan of just the HDF plant, which is happily getting more light now that it has the whole space to itself. :thumbsup:

[salmayo]

Time Rates refer to how fast time moves as a multiple of standard time rate.

Time Factors refer to how slow time moves verses a standard time rate.

Since the vast majority of the timing differences are slower than the standard time rate of SID (TF = 1.0) I use Time Factors not rates to describe the differences.

Rauber does use Time Rates as well as Time Factors to describe the different relationships. Since most Time Rates for the Spectrums used are less than 1.0, using Time Rates, rather than Time Factors, would result in mostly decimal or percentage type numbers that I believe would be too much overload for most readers. (I think we should limit the conversation to Factors to avoid confusion. Yes, I'm actually trying to avoid confusion!)

Bandwidth is the spread out of individual cell's genetic clock's positions (readings) resulting from the changes in the spectrum as it travels through the leaves (canopy). Some bandwidth is natural, but it can be increased and decreased as desired to achieve a desired effect.

At the moment Mother and Dog are using methods with a fair amount of bandwidth, which allows for easier timer dial in, since it's easier to sense when nearing a desired target schedule.

Reducing Bandwidth increases the level of specific responce, but allows for less error up and down on the numbers and changes in timing can be more pronounced, good or bad. Being more accurate you can miss entirely, which is good if you want miss one while hitting the other.

SOD (Standard Outdoor Darkness) spectrumS (plural) have Time FactorS (plural) from about 0.8 to 1.0 depending on how you define the beginning and ending of Darkness on an outdoor schedule. Which is why SID (Standard Indoor Darkness) with it's single Time Factor is used as a standard.

To re-answer HeadShakes question on where these come from - originally I thought that I had discovered the Time Factor of 660nm LEDs by trial and error measurements that took 3 months to narrow down (got three months to detect and measure a number, using 3 day timers), but I defer to Rauber's original work from 1992 where he defined similar data for various spectrums, in addition to defining other relevent dynamics in C-3 vascular plants. In short, for SDP (Short Day Plants) the Time Factors (and/or Time Rates) come from lengthly subject comparisons of 12/12 control plant photoperiodic responces compared to test plant responces to various spectrum and time combinations.

And if you head doesn't hurt enough, to calculate the affects (root production) of Blue "Daylight" hours (real time), we will discuss PAL (Photosynthetic Artificial Light) Time Factors and of course total daily gene time (gene ticks - ticks). (tick tick tick tick...)

Eventually the entire schedule is ballanced/combined and totalled as a whole to consider it's whole affect/effect.

Take care, Sal.

[headshake]

wow, i think my head just exploded!

thanks Sal!

and that's exaclty why i love plants.


-shake

[Italiano715]

wow, i think my head just exploded!

thanks Sal!

and that's exaclty why i love plants.


-shake

Yeah, that hurt my head as well... :stoned: I understood like half of that, so I guess what is next is to read on and do some studying.....

[Mother]

Hello everyone

Sorry about letting this thread get stale. :-(

Here are some new pictures. Good news is I'm learning about time factors, bad news is that whatever time factor I'm using, it's not working for flowering. :-)

The first picture is the whole plant, the second two are close-ups of two different stems. You can see they started budding a little at some point, but they're pretty much vegging now. There's very little, if any, height increase at this point. It seems as if the plant is getting not enough daylight to grow (veg-wise) but not enough night time to flower.

I don't have the time or space to flower this plant out now, since it's about at the maximum height for the space it's in and if I were to flower it, it would get much taller. It's such a pretty plant, I hate to throw it out, but I'm not sure what to do with it at this point. Any ideas / suggestions?