Leaves Curling and a Bit Leathery

[nevergetsold]

My first indoor grow and the 4 week old plant's leaves don't look good. The first few sets of leaves were turning yellow and brown. As soon as I had more leaves I removed the first ones. I notices a few gnats so sprayed the remaining leaves and soil once with SchultzGarden Safe/ Fruit & Vegetable InsectKiller. Now the yellow/brown symptoms are gone but the leaves now are curling and look a bit leathery. Here is my questionnaire and I will add more photos in another post. I have been lurking on the Boards and this is a great resource. I hope you can help me out.
E-indoor
E-soil
E-specific medium ?
CSL-Miracle Grow Potting Mix
HCL-N/A
SCL-Anything you have added to the soil - Nada
SCLR-Soil or slab runoff pH - Donâ??t know yet
E-Water source - Tap
E-Source water pH- Donâ??t know yet
HRT-Source water EC (if hydro) N/A
E-Age of plant-Sprouted April 27, 4 weeks old
E-Type of fertilizer-None yet
E-Rate of application N/A
E-Lighting source and distance from plant- 27W CFL, 5500K, 2â?� from top
E-Air temperature (both day and night if you are running a dark period) 73f
HD-Reservoir temperature N/A
E-Air % Relative humidity 47%
E-Lighting schedule 24/0
E-Type of ventilation your room has - None, open the door once each day 4â?? X 5â?? room
TR-Did you pre-soak your media in pH corrected solution? N/A

nevergetsold Reviewed by nevergetsold on 05-26-2009. Leaves Curling and a Bit Leathery My first indoor grow and the 4 week old plant's leaves don't look good. The first few sets of leaves were turning yellow and brown. As soon as I had more leaves I removed the first ones. I notices a few gnats so sprayed the remaining leaves and soil once with SchultzGarden Safe/ Fruit & Vegetable InsectKiller. Now the yellow/brown symptoms are gone but the leaves now are curling and look a bit leathery. Here is my questionnaire and I will add more photos in another post. I have been lurking on Rating: 5

[nevergetsold]

Here are a few more photos. The last one is of 2 new babies starting the same way but no symptoms so far.

[Mr. Clandestine]

Unless you completely drowned the plants in that insecticide, it probably isn't what's causing those problems. I'd definitely test the pH of your tap water and your soil as soon as you can, though. Looks like it could be some kind of nutrient lockout, which can be caused by wacky pH, and can also cause spotting and contorted leaves. Even if this isn't the cause, it's always a good idea to know your pH.

[nevergetsold]

Unless you completely drowned the plants in that insecticide, it probably isn't what's causing those problems. I'd definitely test the pH of your tap water and your soil as soon as you can, though. Looks like it could be some kind of nutrient lockout, which can be caused by wacky pH, and can also cause spotting and contorted leaves. Even if this isn't the cause, it's always a good idea to know your pH.

I misted the leaves to the point of dripping and basically wet the surface of the soil. I will do the pH tests in a few days. I have the Hanna tester but didn't get the calibrating solution which is on the way. Thanks for your reply.

[McDanger]

Here are a few more photos. The last one is of 2 new babies starting the same way but no symptoms so far.

I have been having the exact same problem. The curling seems to start after there is other new growth above it, all new growth looks great. I have now flushed twice with ph6.5 water so I think I have it in check. I was using a soil mix with a lot on composted manure in it and I think that was the problem, too much N. Your MG soil may be your problem even without adding nutes. What strains? I have white widow, purple urkle X purple kush X trainwreck cross, and some indoor mix from Joey Weed and they are all doing it. :jointsmile:
The leaves are very dark green, and shiny like leather but if you feel them they are soft for about 2weeks then they dry and die. Also it seems only to be on the big fan leaves on the main stalk, the leaves on the side shoots don't have it.:wtf:
I'll keep watching to see if you get it fixed.:thumbsup:
One good thing about it though, it does not seem to be hurting the overall health of the plants, but it seems growth has slowed.
Good luck, I have been fighting this for about a month now.

[Rusty Trichome]

Points to ponder...

Miracle Grow has gotten quite a bum rap, and supports cannabis fine, if you take it's nutrients into considderation. The nutes will last a seedling around 4 to 5 weeeks or so. (depending on quantity and frequency of water poured-through, and temps) After 5 weeks in MG soil, I used to start 'em on half-strength doses of my veg fert and Superthrive. Full strength by 5 or 6 weeks or so.

What's in those peat pots? Is that what Miracle Gro Moisture Control looks like now-a-days? If so...you could use some added perlite, and remove the larger chunks of wood and bark. Gnats lay their eggs under that crap.

Would find-out about your ph asap.

Did you rinse the leaves after the insecticide spray(s)? (the insecticide can clog the pores in the leaves which restricts o2/co2 exchange...in other words...the leaves suffocate.)

Are you letting them dry between waterings?

No superthrive or other micronute, hormones or steroids? Spraying with anything other than fresh water and insecticides?

Fresh air provides fresh co2. Would open the closet up for as long as practical or possible.

As has been previously debated in other threads, I'm not a firm believer in the 24/0 light schedule. Especially if there is ongoing damage. Have you tried 18/6?

[nevergetsold]

I have been having the exact same problem. The curling seems to start after there is other new growth above it, all new growth looks great. I have now flushed twice with ph6.5 water so I think I have it in check. I was using a soil mix with a lot on composted manure in it and I think that was the problem, too much N. Your MG soil may be your problem even without adding nutes. What strains? I have white widow, purple urkle X purple kush X trainwreck cross, and some indoor mix from Joey Weed and they are all doing it. :jointsmile:
The leaves are very dark green, and shiny like leather but if you feel them they are soft for about 2weeks then they dry and die. Also it seems only to be on the big fan leaves on the main stalk, the leaves on the side shoots don't have it.:wtf:
I'll keep watching to see if you get it fixed.:thumbsup:
One good thing about it though, it does not seem to be hurting the overall health of the plants, but it seems growth has slowed.
Good luck, I have been fighting this for about a month now.

McDanger: First, thanks for the reply. The condition of the leaves that you describe pretty much match what I have been seeing. This plant is now about 5 weeks old and about 7" tall. I don't know what strains they are as they were gifts from a friend who liked the source. Here is some additional info since I posted. I haven't watered the tall one for four days, and I changed the lights from 2-23W 5500 CFL's at 1600 lumens each, to 3-32W 6500 CFL's at 2100 lumens each. So I went from 3200 to 6300 lumens at a higer kelvin reading. Next time I will pay attention to suggestions on the board and use different growing media. It may be coincidence but the plant looks better. See photos.

[nevergetsold]

Points to ponder...

Miracle Grow has gotten quite a bum rap, and supports cannabis fine, if you take it's nutrients into considderation. The nutes will last a seedling around 4 to 5 weeeks or so. (depending on quantity and frequency of water poured-through, and temps) After 5 weeks in MG soil, I used to start 'em on half-strength doses of my veg fert and Superthrive. Full strength by 5 or 6 weeks or so.

What's in those peat pots? Is that what Miracle Gro Moisture Control looks like now-a-days? If so...you could use some added perlite, and remove the larger chunks of wood and bark. Gnats lay their eggs under that crap.

Would find-out about your ph asap.

Did you rinse the leaves after the insecticide spray(s)? (the insecticide can clog the pores in the leaves which restricts o2/co2 exchange...in other words...the leaves suffocate.)

Are you letting them dry between waterings?

No superthrive or other micronute, hormones or steroids? Spraying with anything other than fresh water and insecticides?

Fresh air provides fresh co2. Would open the closet up for as long as practical or possible.

As has been previously debated in other threads, I'm not a firm believer in the 24/0 light schedule. Especially if there is ongoing damage. Have you tried 18/6?

Rusty: Thank you for your reply. I have read many negative comments about MG but used it because it was here. I am at the 5 week point on the tall one and have transplanted once from the peat pot to this ceramic pot about two weeks ago. Because it is not a tapered pot I am getting ready to transplant it into a "proper" 1 gallon pot before it gets locked into this one. So far no nutes, just water, and at first I was watering every day which I understand is typical for a noobe. I finally backed off the last two weeks and have left it without water for five days. Today I did water again. I did rinse the leaves the day after I sprayed, using a clean water mister. I agree about the closet but need to be careful about leaving it open unattended. I am also getting ready to install a vortex type 4" fan and charcoal filter for odor control (it is starting to smell nice) and air exchange. I have only run lighting at 24/0. If I were to change to 18/6 could that confuse these little green guys into thinking it is time to flower?

It is the same MG in the peat pots. Great suggestion about the large chunks of wood and bark, I will clean them out.

I have made some changes that might be helping (see my reply above to McDanger)

Ah the pH...I am expecting the calibrating solutions to arrive tomorrow and will get right on checking the pH and report back. Here's another shot of the babies.

I must say that these suggestions are really helpful and make me feel like I have really become part of a community of like minded folks. This board is a big help.

[FatSean]

I often get leaves like this on my plants after several weeks into flower. I must echo the experts here, get a handle on your pH. It is more than just the pH going in. You might want to add pulverized lime to your MGrow soil to help buffer pH issues. 2TBSP/Gallon.

Ignore me if Rusty says otherwise

[nevergetsold]

I often get leaves like this on my plants after several weeks into flower. I must echo the experts here, get a handle on your pH. It is more than just the pH going in. You might want to add pulverized lime to your MGrow soil to help buffer pH issues. 2TBSP/Gallon.

Ignore me if Rusty says otherwise

FatSean: Thanks for the response. I am still waiting for my calibration solutions to arrive (maybe tomorrow) and I will check pH of the tap water and the runoff and post for advice. The plant seems to be doing fine now but I agree that I need to know the pH.