HID & LED

[DreadedHermie]

I was just thinking about the spectrum not supplied by the ufo that I bought, itâ??s red is completely 630nm.

Don't sweat it. Procyon's use 630's and they work fine for flower (Check the SnS thread). It's starting to look to me as though individual controls for blue and red might make more difference than 630 vs. 660 or 445 vs. 470. (Just a hunch at this point, don't base any designs or large purchases on my :twocents:.)

I imagined that the missing spectrum that the WeeZard mentioned was probably the 660nm red and that could be added with a bulb from HidHut.

I'm getting better results reducing blue than adding red sometimes. The $50 Hidhut bulb seems to spec out at roughly the "oomph" of just two of the reds in a Procyon, (in which there are 40, albeit a different wavelength). You're gonna need quite a few of those bubs to get noticed, I think. Again, :twocents:

And no Hermie if I understood you I had no intention of altering the ufoâ??s, I was simply thinking about playing with a totally separate home built panel adding the 660nm andâ?¦â?¦.???

Sorry, I my :stoned: brain just saw two terms: "panel" and "pc boards." I just pictured some poor schmuck diligently soldering 50,000 5mm leds into an impotent red blanket that's gotta be touching the plants for 'em to even notice it's there. Solder fumes (lead) stay in your body a long time. I try to limit my exposure by using big-ass leds.

My original led light design was a "photon enema" of 4. 15W 660's on a long, narrow finned heatsink so I could slide it in where needed. That still makes sense to me. Building a low-power panel doesn't. I think warehouses are gonna be dumping those cheaper than we can build 'em.

If youâ??re willing to go into more detail about all that blue that youâ??re usingâ?¦â?¦You would find me a willing listener.

Not much to tell. Just using 2 Ledengin 15W. blues (with 6 reds; 8 may prove a better ratio for me) on a big heatsink. Would Royal Blues be better? Maybe. The fact that they're on their own driver (as are the reds; they're on 2 separate drivers) lets me effectively change the ratio to whatever I want. That's where the fun starts. :thumbsup:

[Weezard]

"I imagined that the missing spectrum that the WeeZard mentioned was probably the 660nm red and that could be added with a bulb from HidHut."

Thought that you missed that one, P. G.:smokin:

The missing spectrum comment was an extension of Hermie's excellent joke about the "missing spectrum" being ALBACORE TUNA.

That's how we gonna get rich, buyin' stock in odor sock.
When folks all start addin' tuna to hot lights
Bazillions I tells ya.

Yours in jest.
W.Z.

[Horsemanrocks]

Well that sure is a flurry of inputâ?¦â?¦I canâ??t say how much I appreciate the energy to be thorough. Makes me hungry for some strange reasonâ?¦..think Iâ??ll have me a can oâ?? dat 660nm Albacore. Anybody know the wavelength of cold beer?

It seems like good scientific experiments changing only one variable are so plentiful that the possibility of completing them in a lifetime isnâ??t even imaginableâ?¦â?¦.especially starting so late. The first goal is to gather enough information for a successful first grow. The trick will be to keep the imagination in check.

The screen's certainly gonna set the upper limit, unless you're counting horizontal growth along it. Maybe (again) I'm missing something. I mean, your plants will grow as high as the screen, right?....is this a trick question?
Hermie, I guess that from the blogs that Iâ??ve read and the accompanying pictures, Iâ??d imagined that the veg part of the scrog happened for the large part under the screen and the flower portion happened through and above the screen.
I know that my height request is unanswerable due to so many variables, and that the ultimate height is something to which I can assert control, here Iâ??m just looking for ballparks. My lower back tells me to bring it up off the floor. The ceiling is 7â??6â?� so I can only guess that there will be room to play.

Jes' be careful what else (gnat eggs, mold spores, underweight grounghogs, etc.) your intake is pulling into your grow. Filtration may be wise. A closed system may be wiser, if you can manage it.
The possibility of problems of pulling air from below has occurred to me. Itâ??s been bone dry as long as Iâ??ve been here. I did screen with window screen. I had only planned on opening it as little as necessary. How fine a filter would you think?

Oldmac's suggestion above is not to be discounted. I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to sweep the entire length of the grow as the good rails have a timer for how long your lights dwell at the end of each pass. A huge advantage to this scheme which I forgot to mention is: less lights = less heat, less $$, less electrical usage.
The idea of a mover has been abandonedâ?¦..for nowâ?¦â?¦as I havenâ??t found one to fit the application and ordered three light to accommodate. The energy and heat I hope to manage by my selection of LED-HID-LED. Itâ??s all guesswork for me as I have no experienceâ?¦â?¦.wish me luck!

Bazillions I tells ya.
Letâ??s hope not. In Zimbabwe there are a whole lot of very poor Bazillionaires.

Another topic that has begun to interest me is harvesting and itâ??s timing. My neighbor will soon be getting her patient status and isnâ??t fond of one hit couchlock, and will be seeking custom pharmaceuticals. Iâ??ll definitely be harvesting (itâ??s indica) in increments to try to accommodate individual preferences. Any personal knowledge of harvesting in stages and the results would add to the knowledge base.

WeeZard, Glad youâ??re backâ?¦â?¦.after that totally insensitive crack I made about Hawaiians, I thought that you might have taken it personallyâ?¦â?¦Ya big lug!

Headshakeâ?¦..thanks, Welcome.

Gotta goâ?¦â?¦gotta work on the porchâ?¦â?¦The contractor turned out to be a homophobe and refused to build for the village people. Whodafâ??inthunkit!

Horsemanthinks.

[Weezard]

No worries equestrian of the rocking persuasion.
I is jus' a wee t90, itty, bitty, red spotted, blue footed, green 'Zard.
[attachment=o219028]
Got no offense to take, brah.
No gotta stretch da porch fo' my account.
I jus' as happy chillun on da ceiling.
(Dats where da smoke goes, bro.)

Got too ripped to type fo' a day or three.
Bio assay time ya see.
Dis bud may be to much fo' me.:stoned:

Hadda put da pipe down fo' a minute.

Not complaining mind you.
Wee 'Zard.

[Horsemanrocks]

Iâ??m wondering what the effects would be if the Hid cycled on and off and left the Led,s on throughout the 12 hr cycle. A little heat managementâ?¦..but then who knows, Iâ??ll know more as things get going whether I have a heat problem or not.

Now that's interesting. The most effective application may be counter-intuitive, though.

Kicking yer HID on "mid-day" creates a thermal profile familiar to us: most intense light and heat at mid-day.

But the plants may like to start and end their day with the enhanced red /IR your HID may provide, a radiation wavelength profile that they're familiar with. That'd be interesting to play with, especially from a "martian nights" perspective.

Letâ??s imagine an ebb & flowâ?¦â?¦The nutes arenâ??t there all the time. Leyâ??s say that the plant is fed three times a day, takes what it needs.....and survives quite nicely until next feeding comes around. Possibly the same could be true for lighting. The 12/12 cycle isnâ??t broken because the Ledâ??s are still active(possibly a ½ full can of albacore tipping the ufo a little to the inside) Maybe the sun just went behind a treeâ?¦â?¦I dunno, possibly the portion supplied by the Hid wouldnâ??t be missed for short periodsâ?¦.stored, and then replaced when available.

Weezard then figured out to also reduce red at this point to control.....well, I don't know what he's figured out yet. I'm such a heathen it would never have occurred to me to hit the plants with less than full power at at least one spectrum. But during early flower, individual red and blue control (sometimes not running "full power") lets you really manipulate things like stretch (and rate (and location!) of floral development).
You and WeeZard are diddling with lighting combinations all the timeâ?¦..the possibilities are staggering.
Maybe useful for heat managementâ?¦â?¦..and then maybe the missing linkâ?¦..and then weâ??ll all be bazillionaires togetherâ?¦â?¦.I could live with retiring on the big island.
In any case, itâ??s only a thoughtâ?¦.if I can keep my imagination in check I might ultimately have some success.

So much for today,
Horsemanrests

[Horsemanrocks]

If nobody responds to this postâ?¦â?¦no worriesâ?¦â?¦.Iâ??ll just call Vegas, they know the spreads on everything!

While shopping for the â??perfectâ?� hood for the HID, it occurred to me that I have no idea how to set the height (light spread) for the ufoâ??sâ?¦..any clues out there?

As always,
Horsemanwonders

[Weezard]

If nobody responds to this postâ?¦â?¦no worriesâ?¦â?¦.Iâ??ll just call Vegas, they know the spreads on everything!

While shopping for the â??perfectâ?� hood for the HID, it occurred to me that I have no idea how to set the height (light spread) for the ufoâ??sâ?¦..any clues out there?

As always,
Horsemanwonders

It'll be obvious if you turn off the HID.

I plan to do a lux reading vs. height on my knock-off tomorrow.
An da wife wants to know if she can hang out on your porch too.
One beer will last her all night;
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Aloha,
Weeze

[oldmac]

Thought I'd find you all hangin' out at Horsemans' porch. Looks like it has just enough shade to make it restfull. BTW, shade is the most overlooked, cheap to do energy saver there is!
My house mate and I did a little traveling and spent a few days paying retribution to some indian tribes. Well I paid the compensation, he's an indian and never seems to loose in an indian casino...go figure.

Horseman-

I need to impart this bit of wisdom to you. Whether building LED lights from scratch or putting together lighting from off the shelf stuff, don't underestimate the power of "luck". It is far better to be lucky then good in boff lights and life. The very best performing light I own was the result of a experiment gone bad. It cost me money (bunch of useless diodes) and rework time (don't ever mount LEDs using heat sink epoxy!) but pushed me into a hybred I never intended to build that has worked better then dreamed of and I've not been able to equal.

Weez', very nice Mrs there. You 'zards are cute as buttons!

Hey Hermie, that's a very nice picture, I see you're doing youir own hair now.

And Headshake, I saw you say all that LED reading was making your head hurt...it's suppose too. Keeps all them others "in the dark" saying LEDs don't work.

[oldmac]

I jus' as happy chillun on da ceiling.

Hey!!!!!!!!! What's that wet stuff on my head???

You better not be weezin' on my head and tellin' me it's raining out!

[DreadedHermie]

Hey Hermie, that's a very nice picture, I see you're doing your own hair now.

I've opened my own combination hair salon and hernia rehab clinic!! I call it "Turn Your Head and Coif!"
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.Weezard let me practice on him:
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.I was thinking....maybe we could update your look a little, too, Mac? Something with a little patriotic flair should get you some extra attention with the tribes! :thumbsup:
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Come on in Mac, you don't need an appointment. We're ready to "curl up and dye" for you!!