HID & LED

[DreadedHermie]

IMO, FWIW, messing around with low-power panels, even with an eye to modify them, is gonna lock you into obsolescence. The "infrastructure" of the devices won't support more effective components. You're gonna wind up replacing the entire thing, one system at a time.

Led light only got three parts:
1. leds
2. framework / heatsink / place to mount the leds (generally needs a small fan)
3. driver (power supply + current control or variation of that theme)

Better to get a honkin' big chunka heatsink and attach good leds to it, either with thermal epoxy or paste and screws. I'm thinking 1W leds on stars/MCPCB's minimum. That way, if something better comes out, you wanna add more emitters or extra colors, jes' stick 'em on dere.

And for anyone with heat issues, having the led drivers separate from the lamp itself keeps some heat outta the grow area. That's a considerable advantage to an all-in-one unit like a Procyon or UFO.

The advantage of buying a cheapy UFO is: dem guys buy their parts in quantities of bazzionlots so get the deep discount. Cost us double to build.

So if you can make a pre-built UFO work well for you as it comes outta the box, go for it! We can't build 'em that cheap. But as soon as ya start tryin' to soup 'em up, you're gonna wish you had started with beefy, chunky, 1950's America-style quality! :s4:

I'd hold off on a humidifier. Remember, there is an energy cost to the change of state from liquid to gas. (This is why fat girls feel more comfortable when they sweat.):icon220: Fortunately, You can pay that cost in unwanted heat energy. A simple and dangerous way to do this would be to just set a pan of water on a heat sink. (Don't do it that way, though.)

But think about your setup. There's a humidifier lurking there somewhere. Evaporation from the soil and transpiration of the plants is gonna contribute as well. Depending on your rate of air exchange, you may hafta humidify lotsa air for it to make a real difference.

Vented hoods work well. The glass does filter some light; some have removeable glass for use as a simple reflector as well. There are some folks who've done variable ducting so they can divert heated air to cold living areas in winter, or just dump it outside in the summer. Big topic there. Depends on lotsa specifics. And lotsa variables. Importance of proper ventilation / circulation is hard to over-emphasize.

[Horsemanrocks]

Contractors!!!!!!!

The contractor just left. But after a lot of measuring, head scratching, and some language that I canâ??t repeatâ?¦..I think maybe he was Slovakianâ?¦â?¦he informed me that there was room on the porch for three of us OR one Hawaiian. To make the porch big enough for three of us AND one Hawaiian would run about $12,000 plus another 2 grand for plans, permits, and engineering. I of coarse said â??What the hell, letâ??s do itâ?�
He said that he would start in the morning and could probably complete the project by May 2012. I think I got a good deal, I expected it to run $15,000 minimum.
The good news is that I saved $10 on the ufoâ??s.

I started some indica seed from a 1000 plant grow that would have been big local news, but then, they never got caught. The seed has been in a freezer for 25 yearsâ?¦..36 hrs in a paper towel and Viola 100% germ and crackâ?¦.amazing!
So in about 90 days I have to figure out how to use them (ufo's)â?¦..anybody interested in schooling a Newb?

I was just thinking about the spectrum not supplied by the ufo that I bought, itâ??s red is completely 630nm. I imagined that the missing spectrum that the WeeZard mentioned was probably the 660nm red and that could be added with a bulb from HidHut. And no Hermie if I understood you I had no intention of altering the ufoâ??s, I was simply thinking about playing with a totally separate home built panel adding the 660nm andâ?¦â?¦.??? If youâ??re willing to go into more detail about all that blue that youâ??re usingâ?¦â?¦You would find me a willing listener.

Adios,
Paniolo guy.

[DreadedHermie]

Get that porch expanded, homie. Me 'n' the "boys" are headed over!

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[Horsemanrocks]

Letâ??s see.... 3 plus the WeeZard plus the Village people. I better call that contractor back and renegotiate for an even bigger porch.

I know that the three of you are Led guys. I can tell by sooo many indicators that youâ??re pretty bright guys. (Iâ??ve followed some of your other blogs) Many times pretty bright guys are interested as long as the learning curve is high and interest begins to wane with the whole host of Newb questions arise. I hope that youâ??ll stay with me for a while longer, even though Iâ??m a Newbâ?¦ I would still honor your input.

Hermie, Iâ??ve followed some of your other stuff and itâ??s quite apparent to me that without more time and a concentrated effort that thereâ??s no way in hell that I could â??keep upâ?�â?¦..maybe in the winter. WeeZard you too and Oldmac

Another thing that I learned is that if I ask too many questions at a time, then some get overlooked. So hereâ??s todayâ??s one.
Itâ??s a Scrog DWC. If I imagine a 2 week veg and an 8 week flower how high would I expect the grow to end up (soil to tip). I ask this because I wouldnâ??t imagine it to get too high. If so I could start it higher off the floor to make it easier to work under the screen.

Thanks, Village people!

[headshake]

it all depends on your enviromental factors. lighting, nutes, strain etc, etc. why not grow a plant in your setup and see what it does in those two weeks. keep in mind that it will double to triple in size during flower.


-shake

[DreadedHermie]

keep in mind that it will double to triple in size during flower.

Shake, during the last 2-3 weeks 'Zard and I have been learning how to contol this.

WhiskeyTango noted, early on, that putting his Procyon too close to the plant would make it seem to stop growing.

I've got separate control for red and blue on my homemade light, so I figgered out to slam the plants with blue when you first flip them to 12 / 12. Stopped them in their tracks, stretch-wise. (This is prolly what WT experienced, I'd replicated it with a Procyon after he observed it.)

Thing was, the blue emitters on my homebrew light also made flowers pop like crazy, usually in 5 days. The closer to the emitter, the more pronounced the effect. This'd certainly be helpful if yer trying to determine sex. No big deal to me, jes' got some girlclones so no mystery there.

So, I'm not ready to drop my pants and shoot off rockets over early flower; I'm not sure how that relates to the many other changes the girl's gotta undergo to produce proper meds. But there is definitely a ton of control to be had when you're just manipulating these two spectra.

Weezard then figured out to also reduce red at this point to control.....well, I don't know what he's figured out yet. I'm such a heathen it would never have occurred to me to hit the plants with less than full power at at least one spectrum. But during early flower, individual red and blue control (sometimes not running "full power") lets you really manipulate things like stretch (and rate (and location!) of floral development).

One thing we both seemed to notice (W., correct me if I'm misstating this) was that once you've got enough blue, for whatever developmental stage you're in, additional blue is ignored (sort of). So why waste watts / heat?

Well, I'm rambling a bit here, but I'm comfortable claiming I can hold down stretch to 25% pretty easily. 20" veg plant in, 25" buds out--in that range. At least with this strain, WTF it is.

[DreadedHermie]

interest begins to wane with the whole host of Newb questions arise. I hope that youâ??ll stay with me for a while

Horseman, we're all noobs at some aspect of this. I can't answer your DWC question very well, because I am just now getting meters and stuff to try it for the first time. Maybe you can help me out when the time comes. I'll try and get back to pick up your earlier questions, there are good ones. :thumbsup: Sometimes the board moves fast, and the real world occupies me sometimes, too. Don't mean to ignore ya.

how high would I expect the grow to end up

Possibly a better way to approach this question is to ask yourself at what height you would like to finish your plants. You can have a degree of control over this. :thumbsup:

The screen's certainly gonna set the upper limit, unless you're counting horizontal growth along it. Maybe (again) I'm missing something. I mean, your plants will grow as high as the screen, right?....is this a trick question? :stoned:

[headshake]

thanks for the info dreaded. good stuff! i have been following along with you guys but must have missed that info that you just gave me (if it was posted somehwere). i've only been delved into this hobby since last october so i'm a noob still. yes i have come a long way but i still have infinite knowledge to gain.

and this LED talk makes my head hurt sometimes. lol. i do appreciate you guys and all that you do and share. and i do my best to share what i know and what experience that i have gained. one day i hope to be on the cutting edge like you guys. i've got a few ideas up my sleeve. thanks again.

that's exaclty what i was thinking about the screen too. worst case scenario you can make an adjustable one so you won't get stuck on a predetermined height?

horseman, don't let the noob thing stand in your way. there is only one way to not be a noob anymore (although like dreaded said we are all noobs at some aspect of this).

all of you guys rock!


-shake

[DreadedHermie]

Itâ??s beginning to warm up in SoCal and I canâ??t seem to get my grow room over 71 degrees. It draws fresh air from under the house....

Jes' be careful what else (gnat eggs, mold spores, underweight grounghogs, etc.) your intake is pulling into your grow. Filtration may be wise. A closed system may be wiser, if you can manage it.

Iâ??m wondering what the effects would be if the Hid cycled on and off and left the Led,s on throughout the 12 hr cycle. A little heat managementâ?¦..but then who knows, Iâ??ll know more as things get going whether I have a heat problem or not.

Now that's interesting. The most effective application may be counter-intuitive, though.

Kicking yer HID on "mid-day" creates a thermal profile familiar to us: most intense light and heat at mid-day.

But the plants may like to start and end their day with the enhanced red /IR your HID may provide, a radiation wavelength profile that they're familiar with. That'd be interesting to play with, especially from a "martian nights" perspective.

searching for more ????'s....:smokin:

[DreadedHermie]

I like the combination of HPS and LEDs, they should compliment each other well. My first choice would be to combine your 250w HPS with a Procyon 100. I would bolt them close together and mount them on a light rail. This will spread out your light to cover the 5' length easily, plus it spreads the heat of the 250hps around some. Light penertration is so much better since the "angle of attack" of the light to the plant changes constantly, allowing light to hit ares that normally would be shaded with a fixed light. (it's also fun to watch!)

Oldmac's suggestion above is not to be discounted. I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to sweep the entire length of the grow as the good rails have a timer for how long your lights dwell at the end of each pass. A huge advantage to this scheme which I forgot to mention is: less lights = less heat, less $$, less electrical usage.