UH oh...

[evilgunny]

So, something is killing my babies :[. To start with some info on my system...

Started out with seeds in paper towel, 19/19 germed, moved to rapid rooters soaked in ph neutral water (I use distilled). Gave nutrient solution few days later. Everything was looking good until I moved them to the basement. Did have the ozone generator running, thought that might be the reason...but it should have stopped if I turned it off, right? I turned it off a few days ago, cut all the problem leaves off, and its still coming back... Then thought it might be mag deficiency, but I gave them a good dose of that too...

Currently Im growing under a 600 watt HPS. Bout 1 1/2 - 2 feet away from them. Last feeding they received (in one gallon) 5ml AN Sensigrow, parts A and B, 5 ml AN Voodoo Juice, 5 ml AN SensiCal, 10 ml Hygrozyme, and a small scoop of soluble Plant Success. PH of solution has been 5.5-6.5. They are currently just under three weeks from seed. Temps have been stable, 60-70 F, and humidity has been 30-50%. Currently on 20/4 cycle.

And now for the pictures...

evilgunny Reviewed by evilgunny on 05-13-2009. UH oh... So, something is killing my babies :[. To start with some info on my system... Started out with seeds in paper towel, 19/19 germed, moved to rapid rooters soaked in ph neutral water (I use distilled). Gave nutrient solution few days later. Everything was looking good until I moved them to the basement. Did have the ozone generator running, thought that might be the reason...but it should have stopped if I turned it off, right? I turned it off a few days ago, cut all the problem leaves off, Rating: 5

[syde00]

whats your watering schedule/technique?

are there holes in the bottom of those cups to allow excess water to run out?

also, if you are always watering with distilled, I believe you need to add something like calmag to it, as distilled water i do not believe contains these elements (calcium and magnesium). Tap water is almost always fine to use for soil grows btw, but it also doesn;t hurt to leave it sitting out for 24+ hours to allow chlorine to evaporate first.


fyi, I have read several posts by stinky that also says that generally clipping leaves is a bad idea, and they should only be removed if they fall off by themselves... the might look like crap, but until the plant is willing to give them up, they are probably still doing something.

at any rate, my first guess, especially giong by the 3rd pic, I would guess they are being overwatered... as that is exactly what mine looked like when i overwatered... followed by the leaves that were most affected turning yellow/brown and falling off a week or 2 later... but theres not really enough information to say that for sure... you might want to consider filling out the trouble shooting form that is in the sticky post at the top of this forum and posting it here.

many of them in the 4th pic look perfectly fine though, aside from their size for their age

[evilgunny]

I water when the top layer of soil, about 3/4 of an inch, is completely dry. Been like twice a week? There are drainage holes in each cup. As I said before I am using SensiCal. The water quality here is very poor, thus the distilled :] The reason I clipped them was because I thought they might be diseased, and wanted the plants to put more energy into making new growth than trying to fix whats broken. Very possible my train of thought was flawed on that one :P I did use the troubleshooting form, just answered as many questions from it as I could in my first post (not in same format). Do you think maybe they need to be transplanted?

[evilgunny]

Oh, and by the way I used Light Warrior for my medium. Also, I'm using a cup inside of a cup (bottom one has no holes, just for catching runoff water). Could that maybe be impeding the drainage? Theres plenty of runoff water in the bottom cup, I drain nearly immediately after watering, then a few hours later after more has runoff.

[syde00]

Ah, i didn;t catch the sensical thing... not that i;m familiar with that product, but the name does make it obvious that it has calcium at least are you adding something for Mg as well, or is that also in sensical?

as for the drainage and your watering scheduling, well, i think that kinda blows my thought out the window... twice a week doesn;t seem excessive.

when i started reading about the double cups like you mentioned I thought for a second that was going to be the ticket.. that water was sitting in the outside cup keeping the bottom layers of soil wet/mud like... but if you are emptying them of the run-off, then i don;t think thats it.

i;m kinda out of ideas, but there are several others that know far more than me that check this forum, hopefully one of them will come help ya

[8182KSKUSH]

HEy, just a thought.
Sounds like you have everything started well, I would just add that seedlings do not need any nutes. While your plants look tall, they are not mature enough for the nutes yet IMO. That length I think is stretch because you are using an HPS right now, causes more stretching. I would flush them out w/ RO WATER, no nutes, I do add some calmag and 1 drop/gallon of SuperThrive, but you don't even need that. Be sure that everything that goes in is ph'd to 6.5-6.8 whatever you like. And be sure that it is runoff at about the same. It doesn't have to be exact. When I do add calmag, it's usually just 1 or 2 ml/gallon, but it is not necessary by any means, and I would keep it simple and just not add it to start.
Starting them in small containers is the way to go, much easier to control and correct issues if you have them. For instance, just one of those cups, to flush, flush w/ 3 full cups of the same size and bang done. To be honest, you may not even need to mess w/ flushing, but just back off the nutes for now. Be sure that you are watering w/ ph correct RO WATER, and continue to do so until they mature a little more. Don't mistake the size for a sign of maturity. You shouldn't need to water w/ nutes until they are re-potted I am guessing.
Take all this w/ a grain of salt, just my experience, I have done very similar things to what you are doing now. You are headed down the right road. Keep it simple! Read, alot, this is a great place to learn, lots of smart folks here.:jointsmile:

[8182KSKUSH]

Also, forgot to mention this, the temps sound a little low. I would have them up to 75 at least w/ lights on. This may have nothing to do w/ anything just a misc. thing that I saw. Really to veg from seed, and I have no idea what your plans are, but really you can veg under the T12s, T5s, whatever, and that will reduce your stretch significantly. Much cheaper, wal-mart, 60-70 bucks, 2 2x4 t12 fixtures, then the bulbs, and that really all you need, save that HPS for flower. Another thing though, is that if you are running a 600 watt HPS now and your temps are that low, you may need to figure something out to compensate for the lack of heat you would be putting out w/ a floro set as compared to a HPS. Just a thought though good luck.:jointsmile:

[evilgunny]

Ah, i didn;t catch the sensical thing... not that i;m familiar with that product, but the name does make it obvious that it has calcium at least are you adding something for Mg as well, or is that also in sensical?

as for the drainage and your watering scheduling, well, i think that kinda blows my thought out the window... twice a week doesn;t seem excessive.

when i started reading about the double cups like you mentioned I thought for a second that was going to be the ticket.. that water was sitting in the outside cup keeping the bottom layers of soil wet/mud like... but if you are emptying them of the run-off, then i don;t think thats it.

i;m kinda out of ideas, but there are several others that know far more than me that check this forum, hopefully one of them will come help ya

Yeah, SensiCal is AN's version of CalMag. I was thinking maybe the double cups, since they fit so tightly together, were creating a vacuum and not allowing water to drain. Maybe just the free standing water, but perhaps not the water thats soaked into the medium a bit. And no biggie, you tried, and thanks for that :thumbsup:

[evilgunny]

HEy, just a thought.
Sounds like you have everything started well, I would just add that seedlings do not need any nutes. While your plants look tall, they are not mature enough for the nutes yet IMO. That length I think is stretch because you are using an HPS right now, causes more stretching. I would flush them out w/ RO WATER, no nutes, I do add some calmag and 1 drop/gallon of SuperThrive, but you don't even need that. Be sure that everything that goes in is ph'd to 6.5-6.8 whatever you like. And be sure that it is runoff at about the same. It doesn't have to be exact. When I do add calmag, it's usually just 1 or 2 ml/gallon, but it is not necessary by any means, and I would keep it simple and just not add it to start.
Starting them in small containers is the way to go, much easier to control and correct issues if you have them. For instance, just one of those cups, to flush, flush w/ 3 full cups of the same size and bang done. To be honest, you may not even need to mess w/ flushing, but just back off the nutes for now. Be sure that you are watering w/ ph correct RO WATER, and continue to do so until they mature a little more. Don't mistake the size for a sign of maturity. You shouldn't need to water w/ nutes until they are re-potted I am guessing.
Take all this w/ a grain of salt, just my experience, I have done very similar things to what you are doing now. You are headed down the right road. Keep it simple! Read, alot, this is a great place to learn, lots of smart folks here.:jointsmile:

I didnt think they're seedlings anymore, are they? They're growing new shoots like mad, and are over half a foot tall, and about three weeks old. Repotting is going to happen soon, the roots are beginning to find their way out of the drainage holes. As for RO, unfortunately I dont have access to RO water ;/. Distilled is the best it gets for me.

[evilgunny]

Also, forgot to mention this, the temps sound a little low. I would have them up to 75 at least w/ lights on. This may have nothing to do w/ anything just a misc. thing that I saw. Really to veg from seed, and I have no idea what your plans are, but really you can veg under the T12s, T5s, whatever, and that will reduce your stretch significantly. Much cheaper, wal-mart, 60-70 bucks, 2 2x4 t12 fixtures, then the bulbs, and that really all you need, save that HPS for flower. Another thing though, is that if you are running a 600 watt HPS now and your temps are that low, you may need to figure something out to compensate for the lack of heat you would be putting out w/ a floro set as compared to a HPS. Just a thought though good luck.:jointsmile:

The temps are something I can't really do anything about unfortunately. They're pretty steady at 70 lights on, 60-65 lights off. It will definetely warm up soon with summer, probably have the exact opposite problem in no time :sadcrying I'd like to use fluros or a MH, but my cash supply is completely tapped. I have the HPS and that's it for now. I just took them out of their bottom cups, and put some extra drainage holes in em.

Oh, and this should have went with the last post, but I started using the nutes because they were starting to yellow. Thanks for the info and would appreciate anymore.