New to airoponics, so check this out!

[devilvenom]

side note
just like to start by saying whats up 2 everybody, the usual's that i see a lot of post from ( you know who you are. informative). it's been about a year or more sense i posted anything worth reading and even then i don't think i contributed too much to this forum which is the only one i've actually been on to this point.

So, I'm on the road to airoponic and phasing soil out, and i went big, too big i don't know this are some of the answers i will be finding out. i used two 70g reservoirs ( they were just there seemed like a good idea) and cut 56 three inch holes on the bottom of one of them. i new very little about airo, still do, i didn't have the internet yet so i had to just wing it. one of my friends made a few Rubbermaid tubes and got inspired by the ez cloner which had worked great for both of us. which is why we used the same sprayers for this monster. Also have two 4in air stones runing on one of those big white air pumps from a failed 5 site 5g DWC set up from deep water inovations or some shit. would also like to know if this fogger deal would be a good idea for my set up, i've read good and bad and can't come to a conclusion.

my first run was a disaster, i had run a 20gpm submersible pump in the res without a recycling timer (which i had no idea even existed) and after four days i had a bunch of limp soggy moldy purple urkls, lost about 70% . i cooked the roots! wasn't even thinking about the water heating up, a lot. so plan abandon and then my set up just sat around for a month.

round two only happen because of my friend success with his Rubbermaid's and he was doing experimental shit to his. so in this past week i found out about inline pumps. cast iron wasn't a great idea but i had no time my batch of clones sat in my ez cloner for too long and were starting to get that soggy shit on the roots and stem, i've heard you could veg in this things but after 14 days i always get this problem, anyone what I'm doing wrong?

so i got it set up, threw my clones and and ran the motherfucker, checked it the next day and had the same heat issue, looked around a few grow sites and got a timer 3 on 5 off and a electric temp gauge to be on the safe side. my temp dropped to about 87f. I'm guessing if i would have started with cold water it would level out at 74f 76f but who knows, i had hot water already and trying to cool it off. tonight May 10th in a desperate act i ran to the store and garbed two bags of ice and a block of ice, 7 pounders. i threw the block in the res and it melted in about 7 min and brought me down to to 74f for about 20 min ( i threw the other two bags on the pump), after an hour it climbed back up to 77f. and as i sit here typing i have turned the the pump off so it start cold, positioned the top res so its open and pointed a fan at the water to see if i can get it down to good temp, and hope that when i turn it back on it will level out some where reasonable and stay that way.

if anyone could point me in the right direction please do every bit helps. i will be updating this weekly hoping it will be use-full to other amtares out there!

devilvenom Reviewed by devilvenom on 05-10-2009. New to airoponics, so check this out! side note just like to start by saying whats up 2 everybody, the usual's that i see a lot of post from ( you know who you are. informative). it's been about a year or more sense i posted anything worth reading and even then i don't think i contributed too much to this forum which is the only one i've actually been on to this point. So, I'm on the road to airoponic and phasing soil out, and i went big, too big i don't know this are some of the answers i will be finding out. i used two 70g Rating: 5

[LOC NAR on probation]

You need to A/C the place or a water chiller and change the water in the cloner. Temps are most likely causing trouble with the cloner after 2 weeks.

Looks like some good bud going next to it. Is it soil ? Cause soil can take much more heat.

Once you tweak that in you will be happy but heat sounds like it's killing ya man.

[VapedG13]

secondairy or backup pump..incase your main goes out.....:hippy:

[oldmac]

Hello Devilvenom,

Nice aero grow tray you've built there, once you de-bug it you are going to be very happy.

First, I did not see mention of an air pump. But I assume you are probably running one to airate your nute solution. This is going to be the main source of your temp rise. The air pump is taking hot air from your room and pumping it thru the solution....if the ambient air temp is say 80degreesF, the nutes solution will rise to that fairly quickly. If your ambient air temp is 90degrees, well the solution will become that (at least) also. It happens in EZ clonners (that's how I figured it out) and aero system resivoirs. Move the air pump to the coolest location you can, even outside the grow area if necessary.

Second, cycling times could probably use an increase in off times. Currently in an EZ cloner we use 1 min on and 4min off. I have done experiments with a aero/fog set-up that I built, and it uses two seperate fog systems. One is based on a 150psi pump going to inpingement spray nozzles located in the lid. I have found that it needs to run 7 SECONDS every 30 minutes. The other fog comes from a Frapaplas fogger unit that pumps into the tray, it runs 10 minutes every 30 minutes. Either system on its own will run the thing. Redundancy is the way I deal with the pump failure issue btw.

Third, keep in mind that in using an aero/fog set-up you need to run less nutes. My initial experiments showed a 40% solution strength a good starting point and probably no more then 60%.

Guess this is a chance to post a pic of my aero/fog trays again. Mine are 4'x4' and have 138 holes that use 2" net pots and neoprene (Blackstar) collars. Two trays make up the system for a total of 276 plants sites.

NOTE TO WHOEVER; I know it is more then 100 plants, and makes it a "federal" case, BUT it is actually just TWO plants. Since they are clones from one mother, when these things are in production each tray is ONE root mass with 138 geneticly identical branches.

I also included a pic of the Frapaplas fogger unit. The BEST fog generator for horticulural use I have found so far.

Hope something here will help you. I look forward to seeing an update on how your're doing.....just don't give up.

[devilvenom]

So here's the update. i switched to 1/4 horse power pump ( 80lpm) which works out to 21g and some change a min. funny thing it's doesn't have the pressure my 20gpm submersible pump had but that one only had like an inch of tubing between it and the sprayers, and now that i got the timers, it's sad to think that's all I might of needed. on the other hand not having to worry about roots growing into my pump is also a plus.

so temp problem solved, except for about a four to five hour period during the day, (when the lights are off) that it peaks to 80.1f. Is that an issue or can i get away with it? not that i have much of a choice at this point. night time it fluctuate's between 74f 78f.

as far as temps go I'm happy with where im at. Now, why dose Europe and the U.S. have to have such different numbers when it comes to PPM's? if my nute solution is based on EC should i go with that or with PPM's? here a little info i found on anther there site, keeping in mind that all plants and grow environments are different.

This is PPM's for indica strains
early veg 500-600
middle veg 600-800
late veg 800-1000
early flower 1000-1300
middle flower 1400-1600
late flower 1000-1100
ripening 300-500

other info i found useful

Nutrient (salt) concentrations are measured by their ability to conduct electricity through a solution. Dissolved ionic salts create electrical current in solution, the main constituent of hydroponic solutions is ionic salts. EC= Electrical Conductivity, CF = Conductivity Factor, PPM = Parts Per Million, TDS = Total Dissolved Solids and DS = Dissolved Solids. Most American growers use PPM, to measure overall fertilizer concentration. PPM is not as accurate, nor consistent as EC, to measure nutrient solution strength.
EC is measured in: (a) Milli-siemens per Centimeter (MS/CM) or (b) Micro-siemens per Centimeter (US/CM). One Micro-siemen/CM = 1000 Milli-siemens/CM.

PPM testers actually measure in EC and convert to PPM. Unfortunately the two scales (EC and PPM) are not directly related. Each nutrient or salt gives a different electronic discharge reading. To overcome this obstacle, an arbitrary standard was implemented which assumes "a specific EC means equates to a specific amount of nutrient solution". Consequently, the PPM reading is not precise at all, it is only an approximation, a ball park figure.

from what i've been able to gather there's a 40% difference between the US and Europe PPM's. so is it to be more american that i should go with US calculations or is there an actual logical reasoning for this?
i bought the truncheon PPM meter and was confused as hell about what to do next, so this is where i'm at and it took forever for the boards to get back online.

according to my meter my well water is at 560 US PPM's and 400 EU PPM's which is to high as far as US ppm's. the Aqau Flakes system I'm using says i should start at 1.2 EC and end at 2.0. So how do i make a decision with such a differnce in the information?

[socialistpete]

How far away is each site from the ones surrounding it?

[devilvenom]

Between 3 and 4 in, PPM"s here are already at 1250 so I'm trying to figure out how to get 40 t0 60 gallons of good water in it. 10 5g jugs, what a pain. i've read about these r/o systems. any links? not sure i could even go that route at this point.

my temp gage is also pissing me off, i don't know if i can trust it or not. is there anyway to test this fuckers? i set up a 5g bucket so i get a mother going, but my water is reading at 80f even thought it doesn't feel like it. i got the pump running on a 3 on 5 off timer, ( bought a adjustable recycle timer for my big res and just switched them).

socialistpete i saw your 5g set up and wish i would of seen that before, i went on youtube and found this video of setup with 1/2 pvc which i already had laying around form my big setup. but i really liked the 1/2 irrigation tubing. well definitely upgrade to that at some point.

[devilvenom]

scratch that temp gage Q. dummy over here didn't realize my ph meter had the temp on it also, even though i've been starring right at it:stupid:.

[metalhead419]

I got a 6 stage Reverse Osmosis unit off ebay for 140. Its 100gpd and it de-ionizes. (wont turn your bong white) It takes the ppm of my tap water from 550 or more to around 50. Plants love it.

[devilvenom]

so it's been one week since i've embarked on this unholy mess of trying something new. i know now my set up is not true airo but airo/dwc. i have fresh white roots growing out of the older shity ones and newb's poking out all over. i filled my res up all the way to 70g but it still heats up to 80f during the day (lights off). will try implementing fans blowing around the res to leach heat off and one blowing into the res for evaporation.

was able to drop my ppm's to 980 when i added the extra 30g of hose water ( on a well), still high but not as bad as 1200 ppm's. so, i didn't want to sound like an idiot and ask what R/O system was, and metalhead posted and i was armed with new info. then i started searching the forums.

some more Q?

can i hook up one of this r/o to the end of a hose and have it work?

could i hook up a co2 system in the inside of my chamber for the roots, having it pump in co2 for the min the sprayers are going or just in general?

i dropped some dry ice into my res, good or bad?

and now i quote myself

Now, why dose Europe and the U.S. have to have such different numbers when it comes to PPM's? if my nute solution is based on EC should i go with that or with PPM's?


from what i've been able to gather there's a 40% difference between the US and Europe PPM's. so is it to be more american that i should go with US calculations or is there an actual logical reasoning for this?
i bought the truncheon PPM meter and was confused as hell about what to do next, so this is where I'm at and it took forever for the boards to get back online.

according to my meter my well water is at 560 US PPM's and 400 EU PPM's which is to high as far as US ppm's. the Aqau Flakes system I'm using says i should start at 1.2 EC and end at 2.0. So how do i make a decision with such a difference in the information?

thats all for now heres some pics