Pale Droopy Leaves? Any advice appreciated.

[razzapiggy]

Also noticing purpling of the stems.

I can jump in there tomorrow when the lights are out to snap a few pictures but unfortunately today I am going to a cancer benefit for a friend who was recently diagnosed.

Tomorrow I can take more pictures and hopefully figure out what's going on here.

[Rusty Trichome]

Is this the stuff?

Sunshine Mix #4 - 3.8 cf compressed

If so...it's a peat based product, and the optimal range for water ph in this medium is, as previously stated, 6.3 to 6.8. I'd aim for the 6.7 to 6.8 range, myself. (adding nutes lowers it further anyway) Although it's not "soil", it's refered to as a potting soil. Most potting soils are peat-based.

The numbers you quote are more for coco or hydro, aren't they? I don't play with hydro, so I'm not at all sure about that. What I am sure of is that 5.7 to 6.2 ph is way too low for the above Sunshine Mix #4.

Also, as the dolomitic limestone in your potting soil degrades over time and use, the ph can eventually take a dive. (adding to an already existing low ph problem)

If that's not it, a link to the proper medium would help, as I must be confused. :thumbsup:

[phatsesh101]

Ive used sunshine mix #4 and and with the lime its more soillike than soiless mixes such as coco or rock which i think are nuetral ph. peat on the other hand is pretty acidic. lime kinda levels it out. prob is though the lime runs out after 2-3 months and your ph will drop which makes it great for clone to flower growing but it can be a pain otherwise.

but to go on would be pointless cause i would just copy quote rusty

i have great results with 6.5-6.8 in #4 any lower and they yellow as a matter fact all peat that ive used mg ff or whatever.

also i would stop with the ro water just let your tap water air out for a day your not growing dro

[razzapiggy]

Ive used sunshine mix #4 and and with the lime its more soillike than soiless mixes such as coco or rock which i think are nuetral ph. peat on the other hand is pretty acidic. lime kinda levels it out. prob is though the lime runs out after 2-3 months and your ph will drop which makes it great for clone to flower growing but it can be a pain otherwise.

but to go on would be pointless cause i would just copy quote rusty

i have great results with 6.5-6.8 in #4 any lower and they yellow as a matter fact all peat that ive used mg ff or whatever.

also i would stop with the ro water just let your tap water air out for a day your not growing dro

They apparently put the lime in to bring the pH back up apparently. I have several friends who are using SunShine with the pH around 6.0, the guys are the Hydro store told me 6.0 is fine too. Looking back, sometimes I give it as low as 5.7 - maybe that's the problem I'm running into. I'll go 6.0+ from now on.

As for using the tap water instead of r\o, I figure if I add the cal mag I'm fine... but maybe you guys are right.

Yes, the type I'm using is what you referenced - thanks for looking it up bro. I've only been vegging these things for like 4-5 weeks so I figure the lime hasn't broken down just yet. I think I'll just up the pH.

I'm running my PPM at about 850. I put 10ml per gallon of Liquid Karma... a mL or two of cal\mag per gallon, and then 8 ML per gallon of Hygrozime. I was told because most of my nutes are organic, I should push these puppies a bit more. I'm going to boost these fuckers up tonight and see if they perk up. I don't think I'll flush, I'm trying to get into flower within 4-5 days. I'll hope for the best, up my pH to 6.0, not a spec lower, and up the base nute to see if maybe they are just hungry. I'll keep you guys posted.

[razzapiggy]

I'm completely shocked that a medium that is seemingly popular like SunShine#4 has such a discriptincy for optimum pH level to use for water. I've used this medium for a long and have always aimed for 5.7-6.2 with pretty good results. This one cycle here I'm having various problems in veg. I'm not closed mind to the idea that perhaps the pH should be higher than what I usually do 5.8-6.0

Perhaps it's a bit individual to each strain, I really don't know? In any case, this situation has me baffled because I'm receiving completely different opinions on something that I figured would be fairly universal all around - has me extremely confused.

In any case, thanks everyone I'll keep y'all posted! Peace!

[Rusty Trichome]

Your ph numbers are for hydro or coco as a medium. You are using neither, so drop those numbers, as they will continue to give you problems. 6.3 to 6.8 in a potting mix...period.

I have nothing to sell you, nor would I set you on the wrong path...and thusly have nothing to gain in offering you misinformation. Are you sure they are recommending 6.0 ph for cannabis in a peat-based soil? If so...they're wrong, and should be soundly thrashed. (and set-straight) :thumbsup:

Takes a couple of months for the lime in the potting soil to degrade, depending on how much buffering it's being forced to do. (the lower the ph, the harder it has to work to buffer the ph...so it's depleted quicker)

Keep in mind that the nutes are (in my experience) acidic, and will lower your ph even further. (a couple of points, minimum for full nutrient compliment)

Organics degrade slower than chemical ferts, (which are broken-down already, and are ready for plant uptake) so careful with the organics. They can and will build-up if not careful.

Ever have a burn or rash on your feet? That's about what the plants feel like while you are burning their feet with acidic conditions. (irritable, tender and stressed) I'd do a mini-flush (equal to the volume of the pot) with water at 6.8 or so. I'd do this before adjusting the nutrients.

Usually it's best to solve problems, and watch for results. Would suck to jump the gun and screw them up even worse. Patience. :jointsmile:

[Italiano715]

Your ph numbers are for hydro or coco as a medium. You are using neither, so drop those numbers, as they will continue to give you problems. 6.3 to 6.8 in a potting mix...period.

I have nothing to sell you, nor would I set you on the wrong path...and thusly have nothing to gain in offering you misinformation. Are you sure they are recommending 6.0 ph for cannabis in a peat-based soil? If so...they're wrong, and should be soundly thrashed. (and set-straight) :thumbsup:

Takes a couple of months for the lime in the potting soil to degrade, depending on how much buffering it's being forced to do. (the lower the ph, the harder it has to work to buffer the ph...so it's depleted quicker)

Keep in mind that the nutes are (in my experience) acidic, and will lower your ph even further. (a couple of points, minimum for full nutrient compliment)

Organics degrade slower than chemical ferts, (which are broken-down already, and are ready for plant uptake) so careful with the organics. They can and will build-up if not careful.

Ever have a burn or rash on your feet? That's about what the plants feel like while you are burning their feet with acidic conditions. (irritable, tender and stressed) I'd do a mini-flush (equal to the volume of the pot) with water at 6.8 or so. I'd do this before adjusting the nutrients.

Usually it's best to solve problems, and watch for results. Would suck to jump the gun and screw them up even worse. Patience. :jointsmile:

I couldn't have said this any better! :thumbsup:

[razzapiggy]

Def. not saying you are trying to misdirect me at all Rusty. In fact, you seem to be one of the smarter guys on this whole damn forum which has me extremely fucking confused.

The very smartest guy at the Hydro store told me 6.0 is perfect for SunShine - I'm just really confused at this point. Another friend who has used SunShine with great results (1lb+ per 1K every single time) told me 6.0 is what he aims for.

In speaking with people on this board, and off this board, I'm again hearing closer to the numbers you are reccomending than the Hydro Shop\ other friends.

Confused to say the least and quite honestly I'm considering just switching over to coco next run through. It seems like a great medium.

In any case, I gave them 6.0 water last night, 16 ml per gallon of the base nute, PPM was 1000...they look better today for sure. Still a bit of paleness on the tops of them, but no more sad weak look. I'm gonna go to one more source tomorrow to talk about this pH issue and I'll report back to y'all. Thanks!

[phatsesh101]

how do you know hes the smartest guy in the store have u blazed his homegrown

you still havent filled out the form what formula pro r u usein when using organics u should nt worry about ph as long as its not way out and since ur medium is soillike and not soiilless its oh balanced somewhat

oh yeah not all baches of sunshine have enough lime ive been told but have yet to experiance for myself

ne way i get over an ounce per cola solid 2 1/2 - 3 ft buds using #4 and do not ph at all, nuetral tap water with organic nutes

[razzapiggy]

Things looking better... didn't do the mini flush, most were looking just fine and the ones that appeared weak are taking to things much better now.

I've increased the pH to 6.1, and I'm climb to 6.3 in the next few waterings, I also more than doubled my base nutrient these past few waterings and they are fine.

I think I was going a bit too easy on them with my base nute (Botanicare Pure Blend Hydro) I recently switched over from SuperNatural which by the way is an extremely easy nutrient to use.

The buddy who had before told me he uses 5.7-6.2 nutes told me he starts low with clones, but then once he is at flowering he uses 6.2 the entire time.

Combination of things here it looks like... low pH and not enough base nutrient. Hopefully they don't get stressed from pH fluctuation, I worked up pretty slowly so I think things will be fine. Keep yall posted - thanks for the info guys