are we to be free?

[Dreadscale]

I personally feel we are on the correct road!

I am thankful I was privileged to participate in an election that, elected the popular vote as well as the electoral vote into office.

No more Neo-Con bullshit!!
Under the previous administration we had no rights, "patriot act" "Gitmo" we are now starting down a long road to recovery.

Both, our freedoms and the economy.

I got no problems with republicans, just the neo-cons who seem hell bent on world collapse, oh, sept us.

The people have spoken, and we want our freedom back!!

Dreadscale Reviewed by Dreadscale on 04-03-2009. are we to be free? with all the talk of socialism in america and the growing governmental control over our relatively free marketplace, i feel the need to ask those of you on these boards a rather basic question. is the individual an important component of american political philosophy or is the will of the people of paramount concern? this country has always led the world in its pursuit of the rights of the individual, understanding that the price we pay for those rights is a tumultuous life at best. as Rating: 5

[JaggedEdge]

I personally feel we are on the correct road!

I am thankful I was privileged to participate in an election that, elected the popular vote as well as the electoral vote into office.

No more Neo-Con bullshit!!
Under the previous administration we had no rights, "patriot act" "Gitmo" we are now starting down a long road to recovery.

Both, our freedoms and the economy.

I got no problems with republicans, just the neo-cons who seem hell bent on world collapse, oh, sept us.

The people have spoken, and we want our freedom back!!

Clearly you don't know what "personal liberties" mean or you didn't vote in the poll. Considering what you said you should have voted for the second option.

Secondly, Bush was more of a moderate. The 'patriot act' could easily be argued to infringe on our liberties, although it is intended to prevent terrorism, I can see the fear that the government would use it to spy on American citizens and not just terrorists. I don't like it either, although I believe if used correctly it would be a benefit. Unfortunately, the government cant be trusted to use it the way it's intended.

Gitmo on the other hand doesn't infringe on our liberties in the least. It is a facility for captured terrorists, or at least it was. They aren't protected under our constitution, therefore the point is moot.

Please provide examples of what particularly you believe the Obama administration has done or discussed to preserve our liberties? I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.

Is it the talk about requiring public or military service for all American youth? Corporate bailouts? Forcing a CEO to resign? SCHIP(extending healthcare coverage to children 30 years old who live with their mommy)? Putting us into massive debt, more than any president in history(but than promising to cut it in half back to what Bush got is into)? Discussion of banning certain kinds of guns and raising taxes on ammunition? Government control of food producers? Searching private citizen's computers? Perhaps his support of partial birth abortions (and the killing of babies who survive the abortion once it is outside the womb?)

I agree with a woman's right to choose up to a point, however, once a child is born, it's murder. Does a child not have rights simply because the mother wanted an abortion but didn't do it in time?

But please tell me what liberties he is protecting.

[Dreadscale]

Clearly you don't know what "personal liberties" mean or you didn't vote in the poll. Considering what you said you should have voted for the second option.

Secondly, Bush was more of a moderate. The 'patriot act' could easily be argued to infringe on our liberties, although it is intended to prevent terrorism, I can see the fear that the government would use it to spy on American citizens and not just terrorists. I don't like it either, although I believe if used correctly it would be a benefit. Unfortunately, the government cant be trusted to use it the way it's intended.

Gitmo on the other hand doesn't infringe on our liberties in the least. It is a facility for captured terrorists, or at least it was. They aren't protected under our constitution, therefore the point is moot.

Please provide examples of what particularly you believe the Obama administration has done or discussed to preserve our liberties? I'm anxious to hear what you have to say.

Is it the talk about requiring public or military service for all American youth? Corporate bailouts? Forcing a CEO to resign? SCHIP(extending healthcare coverage to children 30 years old who live with their mommy)? Putting us into massive debt, more than any president in history(but than promising to cut it in half back to what Bush got is into)? Discussion of banning certain kinds of guns and raising taxes on ammunition? Government control of food producers? Searching private citizen's computers? Perhaps his support of partial birth abortions (and the killing of babies who survive the abortion once it is outside the womb?)

I agree with a woman's right to choose up to a point, however, once a child is born, it's murder. Does a child not have rights simply because the mother wanted an abortion but didn't do it in time?

But please tell me what liberties he is protecting.

Look at the red the red in the quote. I did vote in the poll!

3 Months to fix the Bush fuck ups is not enough.

Gitmo is at the heart of our liberties, any administration that condones torture will take all our freedom.

[JaggedEdge]

Oh one more.

Do you feel the Obama administration wanting the ability to shut down private companies because they view them dangerous to our economy? What exactly constitutes a danger to our economy anyway?

The have also been talking about eminent domain a lot lately. Do you feel that infringes on our liberties?

[JaggedEdge]

Look at the red the red in the quote. I did vote in the poll!

3 Months to fix the Bush fuck ups is not enough.

Gitmo is at the heart of our liberties, any administration that condones torture will take all our freedom.

You missed the point entirely and ignored the rest of the post. You should have voted for the second option, that was the point. Do you care to comment on the rest of what I had to say.

Regardless I think it is clear you don't actually understand what "individual liberties" are.

I'm used to liberals ignoring things they are unable to respond to at this point though.

Edit: He didn't ask if we are on the correct road. He asked what is most important. You don't follow directions very well do you?

[Dreadscale]

I personally believe Obama would like to go to Camp David and set it out like Bush did.
I don't think he will.

The neo-cons got everything so fucked up it will be hard for anyone to fix.

I don't agree with all the decisions Obama makes, but I feel I have a lot more freedom NOW than I did in December.

If the Neo-Cons didn't fuck up our country, please post a good thing they did.

[JaggedEdge]

By neo-cons I assume your referring to the Bush administration. If so see my post here to that same question.

By the way, please elaborate on how you feel the things I mentioned have increased your liberties.

[Dreadscale]

Hey JaggedEdge :thumbsup:
I'm sorry I did not try to imply Obama could give us more liberties.

I just believe he may reinstate the ones we lost

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Under the previous administration we had no rights.....

we have been losing our rights for a long time and baby bush had little to do with it. the rise of the welfare state we are all forced to pay for has been ongoing for longer than most of us have been alive and our indoctrination into the belief in its necessity seems nearly complete. the fight against the wars in iraq and afghanistan was a political diversion, as was the uproar over any abuses at guantanamo. our wars go on and the patriot act remains in place, a tool that the liberal establishment will undoubtedly find useful should the people balk at their totalitarian schemes. i'm curious as to what rights we really lost under the thumb of these dread neo-cons that seem to be intent on world domination.

The people have spoken, and we want our freedom back!!

in three months our new liberal leadership has tightened government control over the marketplace and the bond between business and government has been more firmly cemented than at any time in our history. the people themselves have been taken out of the loop. we have been convinced of the fable of the evils of big business, those evils were always a matter of bureaucratic corruption, and have allowed government free reign over the marketplace. the seeds of wealth redistribution have sprouted, well fertilized by the bullshit of socialistic pundits, and the wealth you may accumulate is now in danger of becoming the property of the state.

the people have been duped and they are just too lazy to do a damn thing about it. we have been convinced that we have no right to the better things in life while others live in poverty and that our government has the right to quash the individual in favor of the greater good. for all you one trick ponies out there, who see only the end of our wars as their goal, try looking a bit further. these three months have shown us what this administration finds most important, reinforcing government control over their buddies in business. we have been shown that it was always bureaucratic bungling and "progressive" policies that led business into their greatest fiascoes and that the hand of government has always been hiding within their corporate puppets.

[yokinazu]

ok i cannot except that individual rights are more important. this country has been recognizing and letting individual rights and those of the minority rule the land for much too long now. used to be in this country when the majority spoke the minority listened. now all i have to do is complain to the ACLU and i can get that desicion overturned.

when individual rights are made most important you will eventualy deteriorate into anarchy.

even in a democracy you must give up some things make things good for everyone. not just you.