Quote Originally Posted by Mother
My guess is because that while Blue light is present, the plant is geared toward vegging so that's what the photosynthesis energy is largely used for, rather than put toward flowering. If photosynthesis is added during the night, the vegging processes can't steal the energy so it's available for flowering.

My guesses as to why these effects occur (assuming Dog is talking about what happened after he and his uncle added Red fluoros to the night cycle):
1,2,3: Not sure about the stem elongation, but shortening the pre-flower time, the increased trichome production, and stimulated flower production is probably due to the extra available photosynthetic energy provided by the Red light.
4: Yes, I found this out too, and it is a nice bonus
5: More Blue means more vegging/photosynthesis and more Red means more photosynthesis so overall the plant should have way more available energy, however it decides to use it.
6: The Red actually slows down the clock with respect to night time (an all-Red night is waaaay slower than a completely dark night) but at the same time, the extra Red provides more photosynthetic energy that is available to the misc. processes that come directly afterward, so they are more productive. (More detail on this in a bit)

If you add the same amount of Far Red that mother nature does, then it would seem to the plants like around 14.4 hours.
SOD naturally provides Far Red (and therefore is more productive)
SID does not (and therefor is less productive)
If a 12 hour indoor night looks to the plant like a 10 hour outdoor night, then the time factor is 1.2 (12/10) based on the outdoor levels of Far Red light. Assuming those same levels are replicated indoors, the time factor would be the same, so 12 hours with Far Red would seem like 14.4 hours (12 x 1.2)

I'm still in the process of trying to figure out which spectrums have which effects, and I haven't yet brought in the idea of synergy between the spectrums, but I'm convinced that synergy is actually the most important feature of the Martian Method.

Consider the 15-minute Red night break test. Why would adding 15 minutes of much slower night time produce better flowering results, but adding it in all night produces a vegging plant?
I think this is because of some of the effects and counter-effects mentioned above. Adding the Red light reverses Pfr->Pr conversion (meaning it induces Pr->Pfr conversion), and Pr is necessary for flowering (part of the misc. processes). But, this happens only for 15 minutes and during that 15 minutes, a significant amount of photosynthetic energy was produced and is thereafter available for the rest of the night process to do even more work. Once the light is off and Pfr->Pr re-commences, the misc. processes will also re-commence, with the difference being the higher level of available energy.
On the other hand, if you add it in all night, the misc. processes have all the energy they'd need but they never get activated because of the suppression effect of Red on misc. processes.

This is my working guess, so please critique as you see fit!

I'm also taking my own advice... Yesterday I adjusted my flowering schedule again:
10 hours daylight (everything on)
7 hours Martian night (half of the Red LEDs and all RedIncs on)
6 hours SID (no light whatsoever)
1 hour Martian night (a daybreak period)
Photosynthesis is used to produce the results dictated by the Blue Clock, but Red/FR affects the clock speed (reading). Flower signals (mRNA) are produced at the end of the night (12/12), and the functions signalled are executed during the day and night (with or without immediate photosynthetic activity).

I always seems so simple once you understand BOTH the basics available to you at this time - Artificial Darkness Characteristics AND (Spectral) Time Rates. And you hit upon a very interesting point, SID is just that THE INDOOR STANDARD, and we have made it THE INDOOR DARKNESS TIME RATE STANDARD, e.i. THE TIME FACTOR OF SID IS 1.00 (100%). AND, your quantification of SID Based on SOD was practically the standardized method we use, but base things against SID not SOD (for the sake of Indoor Growers). So, roughly, we state that 12 hours (standard) SID being equal to 10 hours SOD gives us a Time Factor for SOD of 10/12= .8 (it takes .8 times as long as SID to do the same time work), the same answer, slightly different context. The Time Rate for SOD is 1.2 times that of SID. TIME RATE AND TIME FACTOR ARE INVERSELY related. We us Time Factors because they are easier to interpret for slower than SID spectrums, i.e. TIME FACTOR is how many times slower, whereas Time Rate is how many times faster.

So for any spectrum, to get a number of SID HOURS of work done,
REAL TIME = (SID TIME)*(TIME FACTOR).

(Note that slower Artificial Darkness spectrums with Time Factors larger than 2, cannot put 12 hours of SID activity in under 24 hours! BUT, using spectrums with Time Factors of less than 2, makes 24 hours day Martian Method growing possible. (Static Example, Dynamic is better but probably too complicated for average users.).

Giving you SID as a standard did mean much by itself, but you used relavence to quantify other Time Factors in relation to it, and in the process you have not only quantified a second spectrum time factor (time rate) against a know standard (we use SID, you used SOD), but you also NOW HAVE A STANDARDIZED SYSTEM OF QAUNTIFYING ANY SPECTRUM'S TIME FACTORS (i.e. time rates).

Consider this a major breakthrough in your progress, since NOW you have numbers that can be caluculated and summed to produce target timing schedules. (I how have a Afghani Crack Bubble Hash celebration excuse!)

10 hours daylight (everything on)
7 hours Martian night (half of the Red LEDs and all RedIncs on)
6 hours SID (no light whatsoever)
1 hour Martian night (a daybreak period)

Given that you want the equivalent of 12 hours SID, we can subtract out your actual SID time of 6 hours, so you only need the equivalent (AD) of 6 more SID hours. So, if you are making the spectrum fit the schedule, you'd need an AD spectrum with a Time Factor of arround 8/6 (AD/SID needed in hours), = 1.333. Photoperiodically/Photomorphogenically a larger AD time factor will give you veg results, while an equal AD time factor gives you optimul flowering, and a smaller AD time factor will induce ceasence (and then death) (from too long a night).

Excellent observation on the pre-flower time shortenning! I find myself forgetting about stretch as preflower, and without stretching the concept of preflowering losses a lot of significance, other than in terms of how long the early flowering processes take to convert to full flowering.

Self observation: I've already breached the Tech Gap to the point that I'm so comfortable with advantages of the Martian Method, that I'm already taking such advantages for granted (they now are expected, trusted).
salmayo Reviewed by salmayo on . First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method" In order to keep track of events, at the request of some online friends, and in order to share the love with the rest of the cannabis community, I'm starting my first grow log using the Martian Method, which I learned about from a very helpful Salmayo, here: http://www..com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30203&highlight=Martian and it has also been discussed in another thread on this board, starting at post 1438: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/150174-perfect-led-grow-light-58.html Rating: 5