Quote Originally Posted by Dogznova
Sal or Mother what's you thoughts on martin RED nights and trich production compared to UV-B being responsible for the high amount?
The UV-B PRESSUMPTION has repeatedly been dissproven by experiment. It's is only the momentum of this Urban Legend that keeps it going. This is the same thing that happenned with Phytochrome BECOMING first and therefore the most accepted (yet incorrect) causitive affect supposedly in photoperiodism of vascular plants. (This is not an argument. I was asked my opinion. It has been given.)

Quote Originally Posted by Dogznova
Ok here is a another question for Mom or Sal...or both ...
Red 630, 660, and far red should not make the plant come out of flowering correct?
I would think red incandescent party bulbs would only have 630nm, 660nm, and fr in them.

Today I just got my new 3-D glasses in the mail :woohoo:and went over to my uncles house and had me a look see.

When taking a closer look at the filament inside the red inc party bulb at different angels using the blue filter I made. I noticed the filament looks a bluish-purple and at other angles it looks pinkish-purple. I think using a lot of red inc's having filaments inside is why the plant might try to come out of flowering. For me all the more reason to use separate LED's to control the
(630nm 660nm f r and UV-B) individually.

There was some good data IMO that we got out of the full 12 hour martin nights of 200w red inc's. I think it's the red 660nm spectrum that's so strong in the red inc party bulbs that's causing some of the buds to start ripening at 4 weeks. When looking at the tops of the buds real close it might be they are doing two different things at once. Slightly coming out of flowering and ripening at the same time. But the ripening seem to be more dominant for sure because I think there is only just a little (bluish light coming from the red inc party bulb filaments) and a lot more 660nm... Just my thoughts...

Sal... have you looked at any RED Incandescent party bulbs through your blue filter and seen what I'm seeing GE or Sylvana?

What about the red 660nm spectrum having a lot to do with bud ripening?

Red 630, 660, and far red WILL take the plant out of flowering if THEY reduce the plants percieved night clock time too much, just like reducing your night cycle would. It would have the same exact effect. It would just CAUSE it in a different way.

Red incandescent party bulbs basically have a 600nm to 800nm, Red to Far Red continuum spectrum, with a give (phytochrome) Far Red to Red ratio, as far as the plants percieve (concieve) them.

Congratulations on your new Martian goggles. Now that you have Martian Eyes, you can see more as a plant does.

What you're seeing with the filament is from the high intensity flux pushing throught the filter pigment. Filter adsorb a high percentage of blue light, but not all, and with enough intensity, even Blue will transmit throught a RED filter. As long as the Blue is not intense enough to reverse the plant (as a cellular colony) into vegging, it's fine. (It relates to volumetric spectral shifting, removing Red and Blue in the lower canopy, but Far Red is hardly absorbed. Below the top of the conventionally TOP lit canopy, absolute and/or percieved Far Red to Red ratios are higher within THOSE cells.)

"When looking at the tops of the buds real close it might be they are doing two different things at once. Slightly coming out of flowering and ripening at the same time." Flowering Cannabis is always doing both to some extent, but it is this relationship and it's variations that we judge as flowering, revegging and/or ripenning, depending on the extent of one influence on another. Buds ARE leaves, but they have two functions, photosynthesis and/or forming floral structures from reproduction. The mRNA messenger signals are mostly produced within the leaf canopy, but the growth mostly occurs at the tips (buds).

"Sal... have you looked at any RED Incandescent party bulbs through your blue filter and seen what I'm seeing GE or Sylvana?" You'll see this with most filter materials.

It is as much a matter of spectrum, as it is a matter of intensity of any one band of light, that affects budding. I hate to relativistic about everything, but relativisim is what it is.

Quote Originally Posted by Dogznova
didn't mean this post sorry
Your "Photoinduction of floral determination and flower initiation" and "Quantitative aspects of floral induction" posts show that two different parties can use the same information to get to different conclusions depending on what they allow THEMSELVES as assumptions. Given a NON-MARTIAN assumption you get a non-Martian conclusion, yet at the same time given (a proven) Martian THEORUM, the same data IS supporting evidence of Artificial Darkness activity.

Half a century of Science doesn't need to be destroyed, rewritten or abandonned. It merely needs to be reinterpretted in light of the now known mechanism by which it works, even if the original ASSUMPTIONS of HOW it worked were incorrect.

We praise these Giants on whose shoulders we now stand, our work does not refute the discoveries of these Giants. Our work confirms and upholds their RESULTS (the only thing that really matters).

They have had to wrestle with unproven ASSUMPTIONS. But, we are merely more fortunate to have a proven THEORUM. Perhaps in the end it is merely that Fate was kinder to us (Life is unfair, but we can be!).

Til then.

Take Care, Sal.

(Thanks for just plain going for it, and not waiting for the future!)