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11-24-2008, 09:13 PM #1OPSenior Member
First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"
Originally Posted by Dogznova
When you're asking "faster at what?" I think you mean effects, like plant height, growth rate, maturation rate, etc., but what I mean is nothing more than phytochrome conversion rates. I'm not trying to get directly at "if you do X, Y will happen" results just yet because I want to understand WHY and HOW the underlying machinery works before I start to care that technique X will give me result Y. I feel that once I understand the process, I'll be able to figure out on my own which methods will produce which effects.
Originally Posted by Dogznova
Originally Posted by Dogznova
I'm telling you ahead of time, however, that as soon as I see them flowering fully again I'm going to mess with the light again to the point that they will probably stop or become very confused. :-) The only way I can figure out WHY this all works is manipulating the HOW to see how it reacts and build a conceptual model (in my head) of WHY that would be, then re-test that model with some new guesses, over and over. That's my plan, so if I seem crazy in the future that I keep doing things that will "harm" my plants, you'll understand why. :-)
Originally Posted by Dogznova
Originally Posted by Mother
The plant needs to sense both "day" and "night" periods of certain length in order to flower, and there seem to be two different ways to change these for the plant. One is to change the real time periods (e.g. outdoor days getting shorter after June 22nd or indoor switching from 24/0 to 12/12) and the other is to change the quality of light in order to manipulate the plant's perceived sense of time (e.g. outdoor shifting of solar spectrum due to seasonal change or indoor Martian Nights). I believe our confusion arises from you talking about real time and me talking about plant perceived time. :-)
Flowering of outdoor plants clearly begins before Sept. 22 in all varieties, correct? And including pre-dawn and post-dusk light, Blue light is significantly longer than 12 hours when the plants begin to flower. However, indoors, we need a longer night and shorter day than this to achieve flowering. My question is not whether it's the blue light or not, but what makes the difference? Why do we need a longer dark period indoors to achieve the same effect (flowering) as we can with shorter dark periods outdoors? I think the difference is the plant's perceptual night clock is running faster outdoors than it does in natural indoor darkness (but again WHY would this be true?), so the plant perceives a longer night outdoors than it is actually getting. So to be clear, I wasn't claiming that Red or Far Red controls flowering, only that the ratio might be responsible for altering the rate of the plant's night clock sufficiently enough to flower given those day/night conditions. The difference is between what the plant is actually receiving vs. what it perceives that it is receiving... and what makes that difference? I think the difference has something to do with comparatively higher Far Red light levels outdoors.
I think we should also be more clear on what we mean by "amount of blue light missing from the full days light spectrum". By that I would mean the length of time of sufficient amounts of blue light are reaching the plant, and by "sufficient amounts of blue light" I mean a high enough quantity in order for the plant to perceive daylight.
Explained another way, I think blue light sensing on the plant is probably a threshold question in terms of quantity and a time question in terms of duration. Meaning once the plant has enough blue light to sense daytime, I do not think increasing the intensity of blue light for the same duration will make much (if any) time clock or flowering difference to the plant. I think it would simply mean a higher rate of photosynthesis (due to a higher quantity of light) but I don't think intensity blue light directly affects the rate of the day time clock, only whether or not it's running. What do you think about this? From your comments I can't tell if you mean duration or intensity of blue light, or if you mean both.
As you can see from my ramblings, my guesses are a work in progress. Gotta start somewhere. :-)
Thanks, as always Dog, for you input and your information! I feel like we are already making good progress toward figuring this all out!Mother Reviewed by Mother on . First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method" In order to keep track of events, at the request of some online friends, and in order to share the love with the rest of the cannabis community, I'm starting my first grow log using the Martian Method, which I learned about from a very helpful Salmayo, here: http://www..com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30203&highlight=Martian and it has also been discussed in another thread on this board, starting at post 1438: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/150174-perfect-led-grow-light-58.html Rating: 5
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