First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

[Jimbob1310]

This should be a sticky in the advanced method growing section. there is unbelievable information in this thread and anyone who really cares about cannabis cultivation would be fascinated with this like i was :thumbsup::jointsmile:

[Dogznova]

Yes sal.... Thanks for the answers. I enjoy reading every word you Type.

I know, laugh at me, laugh with me, as long as you are laughing.

I will show my week 5 pics this week end. Plants seem good.

I got a new plan of attack. When I post those pics I will explain my new approach. Please let me know what you think..:thumbsup:

[Dogznova]

Spectrum dictates what a certain timing schedule will do, but the same could be said of timing vs spectrum as well.

I had a hunch that the spectrum being used had something to do with with the timing schedule. We currently are using a 400w 2k spectrum with very little blue in it. With the type of plant we are using we are flowering with 23 hours of light.


I'm just not sure we are speeding up the clock enough during the day light hours to keep on pace with the clock being slowed in the artificial darkness time. Is this a concern we should have?

Our next plan of attack address this issue a little I think. But I would be curious to read what you have to say about speeding the clock up during the day light hours just to slow it down during the martin nights.:rasta:

[Mother]

I had to trade down the 42W CFLs with 26W (getting hot in here!), and I took one of the red incandescent bulbs and put it at the bottom of the plants. I think this will increase the Red at the bottom of the plants and the relative Far Red at the top of the plants. I'm going to move the other red incandescent down there too. I'm also going to turn the night lights off two hours earlier in order to get more complete darkness and speed up flowering. The new schedule will be:
10 hours everything on
10 hours night lights on
4 hours complete darkness

I haven't seen any apparent change into flowering for the cheese or the BK. And the cheese is having a worse time with the roots, so I don't think it's going to make it through the end of the cycle. :-(

[Mother]

Oh yeah, thanks for reading, jimbob! It's as interesting to do as it is to read about, I'm sure!

[Dogznova]

Hi mother. I hope you and everyone here had a nice Thanksgiving. Ok here goes week 5 pics. These plants have now been flowering for 5 weeks but have only been under (martin night lights) for 4 weeks. In the first pic my uncle and I turned out the HPS 5 min's early and used the video camera's white light for the pic. The second pic is the same flower but when the red martin lights were on. We are about half way through flowering at this point.

So far this is what I've noticed using 4 weeks of RED martin night lights.

1. Martin nights can suppress stem elongation in the first two weeks of flowering (and for us it did).

2. Martin nights also increased the Trichome production (on our plants). There is alot more then
what would have been (up to this point) had we just been using the 2k 400w hps alone and natural darkness. It looks like a LED or CMH (ceramic metal halide) type of trichome production.

3. Yield increase so far.... For us the use of the red martin nights did slow stem elongation when we first started to use them in the second week. It looks like (martin nights) put the plants into flowering faster witch is contributing to a little more yield (not much, but a little). If we would have started the martin nights at the beginning of the flowering cycle (week one) then we could of increased the yield just a little more. Basically the WAY we used the martin nights has only contributed to just a little yield increase IMO.

I think increasing "our" yield using martin nights will come from a whole different source altogether. But (let it be known) because of the fact that red martin nights DID stop our plants half-veg half-flower cycle during the first two weeks. This in itself will contribute to more yield when combined with the proper yield increasing techniques under the martin method IMO.

4. Red martin nights I think are increasing the flowering metabolism rate in (our) plants. I just don't think my uncle and I are utilizing it properly, again JMO.

5. And just think, This is only half the reason for us wanting to use Martin Nights. LOL

[thedudeman]

Hi Mother, Sal, Dog, knna, Weez (and many others contributing on this topic.

I just finished the best LED thread to the end and what a read! ( I posted there but it seems that the momentum has perhaps shifted to this thread now)

These Martian nights sound like the future to me. (I'm already a UFO conspiritor so i love the name! :P )

The idea of a 24/12 grow sounds like it is and should be possible for us in the near future with a few more clues desciphered. It looks as though we already know that the Far-red wavelength is essential to balance the Pr / Pfr ratio. I took note of Sal's recommendation about Mother's initial set up in the "Best LED" thread. He had taken note of the 126watts of Far-red illumination that you had in mind for your set up and said that you would likely need what he specified was about twice that amount of( i think it was 250watts or so he suggested) wattage to balance with the competeing Red (660nm). It was something to that effect, please don't crucify me if i'm wrong. (I tried to find exact quote)

Am I mistaken in thinking that a 89% Red to 21% Far-red would be good during the day and inversely perhaps 89% Far-red to 21% Red during the Martian night time on a 24/12 flowering schedule. I could be way off here but i'm just postulating a bit. We know that the absence of the light in the blue (<500nm) has to do with making the trigger to flower happen. It seems like all that really leaves us to play with is our Red/Far-red ratios during day and night.

Anyway i've set up a new room in a new house (starting from seedlings for that matter to avoid mite or bacterial contamination from transplanted clones) I have previously built my own array and modified some high flux LEDs to run a small grow box (veg was great/ flower not so hot) as a precursor to spending some money on a Procyon lamp, which i finally did purchase. I am adding some seedlings to my grow as they germinate and form tap roots. At the moment only 1 really took off, but i've planted what appeared to be another good candidate today so hopefully i'll have a few plants to work with. For the most part my seeds should consist primarily of sativa breed and Northernlight's derivatives thereof. Notoriously i have a nack for germinating females, hope my luck holds here.

Mother i hope you don't mind another grower hitching his trailer to your thread. I will be doing my first attempt at a Marian night grow with the plants that i am starting here as well, and it would be good to keep us all in the same place for ease of access to the information gleemed here. I'll be awhile getting there late as i need to establish a healthy mother plant first, but i promise to do the experiments.

One thing that i have been thinking about doing is purchasing another Procyon (I'm really impressed with the penetration levels the Cree LEDs produce) and modding and paralleling the two combined blue arrays and red arrays together. Knna will be please to hear that i agree with his statement that they are cranked up too much by default. Right now my 1 procyon lamp is sitting nearly 3 feet off the floor for my 1 little seedling. Its a waste and i could be turning it down and lowering the light instead. I am an electronics hobbiest and I enjoy modding and making things work better or more the way i intend them too. As well i would then gain the control i would need to establish a martian night with the procyon 100. Its too bad there are no Far-red Cree's or i would definately go that route, however i did find a good supplier of High powered Far-red Leds HERE. I'm getting on ordering them now. Could take awhile to arrive. I am supplementing my Procyon with a 40w CFL to help provide all the other spectrum during veggin 24hours ATM.
Sorry for the long post.

Mother let me know if you would prefer i start a separate thread.

Here are a few pics.




Thanks all. L8trs

[headshake]

Hi Mother, Sal, Dog, knna, Weez (and many others contributing on this topic.

I just finished the best LED thread to the end and what a read! ( I posted there but it seems that the momentum has perhaps shifted to this thread now)

These Martian nights sound like the future to me. (I'm already a UFO conspiritor so i love the name! :P )

The idea of a 24/12 grow sounds like it is and should be possible for us in the near future with a few more clues desciphered. It looks as though we already know that the Far-red wavelength is essential to balance the Pr / Pfr ratio. I took note of Sal's recommendation about Mother's initial set up in the "Best LED" thread. He had taken note of the 126watts of Far-red illumination that you had in mind for your set up and said that you would likely need what he specified was about twice that amount of( i think it was 250watts or so he suggested) wattage to balance with the competeing Red (660nm). It was something to that effect, please don't crucify me if i'm wrong. (I tried to find exact quote)

Am I mistaken in thinking that a 89% Red to 21% Far-red would be good during the day and inversely perhaps 89% Far-red to 21% Red during the Martian night time on a 24/12 flowering schedule. I could be way off here but i'm just postulating a bit. We know that the absence of the light in the blue (<500nm) has to do with making the trigger to flower happen. It seems like all that really leaves us to play with is our Red/Far-red ratios during day and night.

Anyway i've set up a new room in a new house (starting from seedlings for that matter to avoid mite or bacterial contamination from transplanted clones) I have previously built my own array and modified some high flux LEDs to run a small grow box (veg was great/ flower not so hot) as a precursor to spending some money on a Procyon lamp, which i finally did purchase. I am adding some seedlings to my grow as they germinate and form tap roots. At the moment only 1 really took off, but i've planted what appeared to be another good candidate today so hopefully i'll have a few plants to work with. For the most part my seeds should consist primarily of sativa breed and Northernlight's derivatives thereof. Notoriously i have a nack for germinating females, hope my luck holds here.

Mother i hope you don't mind another grower hitching his trailer to your thread. I will be doing my first attempt at a Marian night grow with the plants that i am starting here as well, and it would be good to keep us all in the same place for ease of access to the information gleemed here. I'll be awhile getting there late as i need to establish a healthy mother plant first, but i promise to do the experiments.

One thing that i have been thinking about doing is purchasing another Procyon (I'm really impressed with the penetration levels the Cree LEDs produce) and modding and paralleling the two combined blue arrays and red arrays together. Knna will be please to hear that i agree with his statement that they are cranked up too much by default. Right now my 1 procyon lamp is sitting nearly 3 feet off the floor for my 1 little seedling. Its a waste and i could be turning it down and lowering the light instead. I am an electronics hobbiest and I enjoy modding and making things work better or more the way i intend them too. As well i would then gain the control i would need to establish a martian night with the procyon 100. Its too bad there are no Far-red Cree's or i would definately go that route, however i did find a good supplier of High powered Far-red Leds HERE. I'm getting on ordering them now. Could take awhile to arrive. I am supplementing my Procyon with a 40w CFL to help provide all the other spectrum during veggin 24hours ATM.
Sorry for the long post.

Mother let me know if you would prefer i start a separate thread.

Here are a few pics.




Thanks all. L8trs

hey dude, i don't know about mothers feelings if you post in this thread, but you should definitely start a grow log too. you can copy and paste the same stuff or just post your conclusions in mothers thread. i just think the grow log would be of the utmost benefit. that way there would be a start to finish, materials included, defacto guide...even if the method is still a work in progress.

just something to consider.

-shake

[thedudeman]

Heya Shake.

I'll be brief in posting my particulars here from now on and mostly just be making comparisons to what is discussed here. Really just wanted to give this discussion a perspective of what i am seeing to compare to.

I'll be awhile before there is anything else to honestly report in my case. But your right an appropriate log will be gathered, compiled and presented. Perhaps in a different thread if prefered. :thumbsup:

[headshake]

no doubt dude! that will be perfect. when the time comes, put your log in the grow log section in the growing forum.

i look forward to seeing both. this is very interesting stuff. very interesting. i hope to contribute someday.

keep up the good work guys. and keep the info coming!

-shake