First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

[Dogznova]

Dog, I don't suppose you could tell me how the Dutch Passion version compares to DJ Shorts? The Shorts is the best I've tried, but extremely hard to get locally.

Sal unfortunately I'm not familiar with DJshort's Blueberry. I am however familiar with the original Blueberry witch was only available in a clone in 1990 at least in my neck of the woods. My uncle had it until his basement flooded in 1998. Long story short. My uncle got a clone from one of his biker friends in 1990 (when you cloned the original BB it bled deep red like blood) and when the flowers were cured they tasted like Boo Berry Cereal (witch was not available in the early 1990's, they only just recently reintroduced the cereal back into the market) I know who cares. LOL. In 1996 and 1998 I went to Amsterdam with some friends and they had know such thing in the motherland. They kind of giggled when I asked for it in a bunch of well known coffee houses. In 1999 or so someone must of took a clone over and now it's a registered trade mark.. LOL. In the spring of 2001 my uncle and his wife went to Amsterdam and picked up some fresh BB beans from the DP co. and he's been doing the same strain since.

I think this strain from the DP co. has been crossed with hash plant JMO. The DP's version to me is about 70% Indica and about 30% Sativa were as the original was 100% indica. The original BB had NO stretch what so ever when flowered and that includes veggin and flowering under HPS. Try that with this hybrid DP version and it will hit the ceiling on ya. Also with this DP strain WE can only get the original Blueberry smell from the cured flowers not the taste. Don't get me wrong the taste is good it's just not the "original Boo Berry Cereal taste". Also as side note when we clone this hybrid DP version (it bleeds light blue blood not deep red) I know who cares. The original BB buzz was a verry strong indica (if smoked on a summer's day it's night night time for sure) This DP's strain not so much. This strain will however mess with your head. :i feel stupid: Can't indulge this with any rookies. This stuff is know joke. I have put heavy commercial smokers down for the count after a rendezvous with this Dutch Passion Blueberry. I like this version alot but I wish I could still have the original back. Tell me about DJ shorts BB strain I would love to here.

[Dogznova]

Ooops! Forget that, I just reread your post and I obviously forgot you were using Red Inc.'s to. I'm leaving this Ooops math up there though, since it's a nice 660nm example and who knows how many more I'll get in.

So doing right for you, using mothers approximation of a Time Factor of 2. Right now you got 4/2 = 2 hours equivalent AD, plus 10 hours actual SID, giving you 12 hours total equivalent SID, which is right on target,

BUT you do loose about a quarter to a half hour of photoeqalibrium change over time for the phytochrome to get to it's SID operating level. In other words it takes a little time going from a Time Factor of 2 to a Time Factor of 1.

You can make this up by adding a quarter hour to a half hour of SID, or by adding a half hour to a hour of AD to the schedule. In other words trading a little more SID or AD for HPS time

Ok the next batch will be 10 hours hps and 5 hours AD. The batch my uncle is working on now is being done in 12/12 SID. They will be done in about 3 1/2weeks. In the mean time I'm going to work on getting different INC's combos for the next round. "Time to step it up a notch"

Sal... In our 5 hours of AD I want to get different colored INC's into the mix..Black,Red,Yellow,Orange,Clear. I think I read on one of your TY post you were talking about black lights for the first 1/2 hour to 1 hour of AD. How do you still feel about that? Has it changed to clear INC's. I'm thinking we need more then red INC's only during the AD. So with your guidance I would like to introduce a different mix of INC's this next time. Black or clear for the first hour then red, orange, yellow INC's for 4 hours then 9 hours SID.

guidance please...:thumbsup:

[Mother]

Sorry Weez, I'm not always sober when I post, so what makes sense in my head doesn't always make sense outside my head.

hunchback

is at

hush

dot com

[salmayo]

Post#172

Sal... In our 5 hours of AD I want to get different colored INC's into the mix..Black,Red,Yellow,Orange,Clear. I think I read on one of your TY post you were talking about black lights for the first 1/2 hour to 1 hour of AD. How do you still feel about that? Has it changed to clear INC's. I'm thinking we need more then red INC's only during the AD. So with your guidance I would like to introduce a different mix of INC's this next time. Black or clear for the first hour then red, orange, yellow INC's for 4 hours then 9 hours SID.

guidance please...:thumbsup:

Just as with Mother's grow here, LET THE PLANTS RESPONCES GUIDE YOU. (Just like I would with any other strain and grow method, if the strain is taking longer than you want to finish, INCREASE THE SID TIME to ripen the plant up faster, just like when people use 10/14 to finish their plants the last 10 days or so before harvest, but it's better to use the right time for the plant during the main duration of your flowering phase.)

The Martian Method is a Qualitative Approach to Growing, let the plants Qualities Guide you to providing it with what it WANTS/NEEDS. For instance some plant have more demanding nutrient needs either up or down sometimes and we diagnose the plant according to it's behavior (not ours). Projections are just the same type of info we'd get from the first grow experience with an unkown strain, the difference is we're using math instead of a growing experience to point us in the right direction.

I take this approach for granted since I grow Sativas indoors and they have regular SID timings of 11.5/12.5, 11/13, 10.5/13.5 and so forth, depending on the strain, so I used to setting the timing for a particular plant according to it's behavior the first crop I GET TO KNOW IT, and then the second crop tends to be much better thanks to the notes I take during the first time arround.

The main point of what we are teaching you at this point is HOW to set your timer, not WHERE to set it! We tell you where, but strains can differ, and you need to know this (I'm sure people will blame the timer projection if they don't get the results they want, but would you blame your 12/12 SID timing method as being at fault, if you had a strain that liked 11.5/12.5 or 11/13 better???) We start you off with a projected timer schedule based on AD/SID (Artificial Darkness / Standard Indoor Darkness) calculations, and THEN the plant can tell you how to set your timer up or down a bit as dictated by plant genetics. I take this for granted a lot, since I am used to doing it with every new strain I try, learn a bit about, and dial in.

I know it seems like I'm leaving you hanging for info sometime (~all the time), but that's kind of the point. You need to interpret the plant once the math is done.

Note that you got better information, from asking a better question (somewhat) and the more information you get the better you can do this, but having more information is not as important as ASKING A BETTER QUESTION! Science is moving faster and faster these days, but it isn't because we have better measuring devices or information per se. It is that NOW we are asking better questions as a tool in itself, which is a Qualitative difference in HOW we ask questions. Knowing how to ask better questions and having better questions, that is providing us with better answers these days. It's a Qualitative advance in thinking, not measuring. Hail Dr. Demming!

You did, of course, pick up a valuable piece of information on the Photoequalibrium adjustment (readjustment) lag, which is more pronounced with larger changes in the Photoequalibrium levels. The change takes the same amount of time to occur, but the amount of time manifesting itself as the time difference experience by the plant is more an average of the two Time Factors involved over the duration that the change occurs.

Brain hurt yet??? The simple version is better for most growers who don't need to know HOW it works, just HOW long, so we just tell people to add a little time for Photoequalibrium changes to SID.

Changes between one Photosynthetic spectrum and another are very rapid (assuming the light level isn't too dim). So only worry about the time lag at NIGHTFALL (sunset, lights out, ect.). We call it NIGHTFALLING!

Even inventing our own descriptive language is fun about this stuff, since it's a Virgin Science WE CREATED and just like naming an invention, we get to name new processes and theories we develope. For instance, RAUBER uses the term PAD not AD, for Photosynthetic Artificial Darkness, since he feels the terms Artificial Darkness (AD) and Virtual Darkness (VD, ewh!) are being already prevelently being used to describe SID, which is NOT Artificial nor Virtual by definition since SID occurs Naturally in Cave, and the terms Artificial basically means unnatural and man made, and the term virtual basically means unreal and non-existant, but SID occurs Naturally in CAVES, is REAL (in Nature) and Exists (in Nature).

We use SID because it is ONE spectrum (just as Zero is ONE number), whereas SOD is a family of spectrums (just as integers are a family of numbers). Using SID as one spectrum for reference allows us to standardize our references to it easily, while using SOD (Standard Outdoor Darkness spectrums! PLURAL!!!) would be much more complicated and pretty much impossible to use as a standard.

Gotta take a break! (YOU KNOW YOU NEED IT!!!)

Take Care, Sal.

[salmayo]

Got distracted slipping into something more comfortable (my old avatar)

From post#171, sorry I got side tracked there on that last one.

Sal... ...Tell me about DJ shorts BB strain I would love to here.

Not to get off topic here, but here are two descriptions of DJ Shorts Blueberry (AKA Original BlueBerry, a stout mostly Indica Plant from the 1970's) and True BlueBerry (a more typical stretchy Indica/Sativa Hybrid).

DJ Shorts BlueBerry (not the "True Blueberry") is the one most people I know swear by as the original BlueBerry Strain, whereas most strains out there are hybrids of it and are more like the so called "True Blueberry" which is also a DJ Shorts strain.

DJ Shorts Blueberry - Indoor / Outdoor
Developed from different new genetic lines, unique to Europe. Also Blue Velvet and Flo are developed from totally new genetics. These genetics are of high quality, and have not been grown in Europe before. Mostly indica dating back to the mid 1970's. Large producer under optimum conditions. A dense and stout plant with red, purple, and blue hues, usually cures to a lavender blue. Very fruity aroma, and taste of blueberry. Produces a notable and pleasantly euphoric high. Highest quality and is very long lasting. Medium to large calyxes. "Blueberry" Long shelf life, stores well of long periods.
Flowering indoors 45 to 55 days.

DJ Shorts True Blueberry - Indoor
The ultimate hybrid of Blueberry expression, selected for its superior quality from a large pool. This hybrid contains the best from both worlds (indica and sativa). Medium height with long, fruity and productive buds of medium sized calyxes. Beautiful lavender hues become apparent soon into the flowering cycle. The finished product is of the highest quality with sweet, elongated blueberry buds destined to please the most finicky of palates. High resin production as expected from the Blue family. Above average yields
Indoor flowering 7 to 8 weeks.

I'd post a picture or two but the ones I found are immature and not very representative of the final product.

[salmayo]

Sal... In our 5 hours of AD I want to get different colored INC's into the mix..Black,Red,Yellow,Orange,Clear. I think I read on one of your TY post you were talking about black lights for the first 1/2 hour to 1 hour of AD. How do you still feel about that? Has it changed to clear INC's. I'm thinking we need more then red INC's only during the AD. So with your guidance I would like to introduce a different mix of INC's this next time. Black or clear for the first hour then red, orange, yellow INC's for 4 hours then 9 hours SID.

Like using HPS or MH Dog, it depends on what you want to achieve.

I would investigate the following Inc. Bulbs for the following reasons:

Black:
Also Knows As (AKA) Blacklight (often abbreviated BL) or Blacklight Blue (often abbreviated BLB). As a Far Red Source, but has no real photosynthetic output and runs hotter than the others converting the light it absorbs to heat. It's basically the fastest of the Darkness spectrums and can be used to hasten photoequalibrium transitions from Artificial Light and/or Artificial Darkness to faster Darkness and AD spectrums. Technically this is a form of SOD (Standard Outdoor Darkness), not SID, but all AD dynamics apply (just as they do with all spectrums, something to consider with our new expanded understanding of spectrums thanks to the discovery of AD spectrums and how they work!!!)

Red:
Basically Black with Red added to the spectrum, so it is a form of AD (PAD) being that it is photosynthetic, but since it absorbs more light than the (following) rest of the AD families, it's hotter than the rest and pretty much has the least amount of photosynthetic energy available compared to Orange and Yellow.

Orange:
Short version, AD that's intermediate between Red and Yellow, more photosynthtic than Red but less than Yellow, safer in avoiding Blue and faster than Yellow and moreso than Green.

Yellow:
See Orange. Covers it. Depending on the pigment used, might not be as functional at removing Blue from spectrum.

Green:
The least safe AD at blocking Blue and might only work with additional filtration to eliminated Blue, but provides the most photosynthetic light energy for an Inc. AD source. Slowest AD Inc. source, but still faster than non-Far Red AD sources, so it speeds up things when combined with other non-Inc. AD sources.

Clear:
NOT AN AD (PAD) SOURCE, since it contains Blue and can be used as a Blue trigger source if used at enough intensity, but basically less effective than other Blue sources (watt per watt/FT^2). Less light loss converted to waste heat and pretty much the generic source for Far Red when conbining with other Artificial LIGHT sources when doing NON-AD spectrums. If you really want the most from your Inc. Far Red wattage use, using Clear Inc.'s for your Blue light (light's on, day) time is best (on the Blue source's timer), but turning AD Inc.'s OFF while leaving the other AD sources ON with the Blue source (ON) means additional timers and complications (So of course I go there with yet another timer!!! BUT YOU KNOW WE'RE DARK AND STRANG HERE AT TEMPORAL PHOTONICS!!!) So the question is, "How much fun do you want to have?" (You thought synchronizing 2 timers was fun! Howz about 3?!!!...) imp: :wtf: :thumbsup: :stoned:

Sorry it I'm having too much fun! :stoned:

Yeh, that's enough thread jacking of now.
(Careful what you wish for questioners)

Take Care Kiddies, Sal.

[Dogznova]

"Wow" is about all I can say at this point.

[Mother]

Hehe, threadjacking is a-ok! Thanks for the info, knowledge and wisdom sal!

The Bubba Kush is a-ok as well :rastasmoke:! All four yields were meager, of course, but they were fluffy on top of that, so there really isn't a whole lot. They're decently crystalled, so what's there is pretty potent. It's not as long lasting as it should be, but it's pretty close. I'd say 75 or 80% there. There's not much aroma unless I rub it a bit, but even then it's not very rich smelling.

No worries, though, I'll enjoy it all just the same!

I think I finally got my hydro on track. Weez, I took a page from your book, rinsed the hell out of everything, and reduced my nutes to just Pure Blend Pro and Hygrozyme, and the plants love me for it. I think simpler is better. That means I'll get the next thread on track once the little ones are healthy enough to be seen in public.

Hydro has a steep learning curve, but I think I'm going to like it.

[salmayo]

"Wow" is about all I can say at this point.

P.S. Congratulations are in order for Dogsnova as well, you've made the Beta Grade! Keep those pictures coming, they look great!

Sorry about the bandwidth overload Dog, too much time swapping heads with RAUBER and I'm still in lightspeed overload mode from throwing all these posts between threads.

Again, the short version is, you don't need to now all the micro info on everything, you just need to know how to tune in the timer, up or down on the equivalent SID.

And, just because Mother has a Time Factor, doesn't mean it's accurate enough to just "Plug-N-Play" the time numbers. Her Time Factor approximation is surprisingly good, especially for her first time out.

All four yields were meager, of course, but they were fluffy on top of that, so there really isn't a whole lot. They're decently crystalled, so what's there is pretty potent. It's not as long lasting as it should be, but it's pretty close. I'd say 75 or 80% there. There's not much aroma unless I rub it a bit, but even then it's not very rich smelling.

No worries, though, I'll enjoy it all just the same!

Assuming a standard commercial type plant such as Skunk#1 (THE old school standard).

I figured yields would be low, with all the timer adjustments dialing it in, but like I said the second time should be much better, given your knowledge from this experience.

Assuming a standard plant subject, tendencies and trends are very important to observe and consider.

"they were fluffy on top of that, so there really isn't a whole lot." These are the signals I look for in the plant. In terms of grow spectrum your best yeilds will tend to be in a range of Red to Far Red ratios where (low R/FR, high FR/R) the buds are just below the stretch (fluffy) responce where energy considered wasted on stem elongation (stretch/fluff), and the other end of the range of R/FR ratios where (high R/FR, low FR/R) the plants don't move fast enough, just as with AD speed (AD knowledge is applicable to spectral growth rate).

But I still recommend you leave the spectrum alone and learn to adjust the timer first. I do use many spectrums and timer settings to get from early flower through final harvest, but I'm here learning about the rest of you so we at Temporal Photonics can convey information to the public in manner they can use. In other words I'm comparatively OVERLY familiar with all the dynamics an use they to the full extent (multiple spectrum, multiple timers, multiple schedules, and combining multiple techniques). Which is good news for the rest of you, since there's still plenty to learn, assuming you like learning new stuff. As for the "Just give us the answers" crowd, Halloween will be here soon enough!

"They're decently crystalled, so what's there is pretty potent." I assume you have sampled for potency, and I predicted you were still in the zone for good potency. But, fluffy buds with low potency is a sign that the plants need more equivalent SID. I've done grow experiments on turning the timing slowy from 12/12 up to 14/10 on standard SID 12/12 type grows searching strain genetics for higher yielding strains that retain potency at higher growth rates, and most commercial plants will do a revegging stretch with plenty of trichome to see, but no potency, since the THC execution gene aren't getting hit by the shorter night clock run. Trichome production may be up, even with lots of resin and even with plenty of aroma, but THC content could still be low if the equivalent SID time is not long enough for the proper THC gene to be executed.

"It's not as long lasting as it should be, but it's pretty close. I'd say 75 or 80% there." I'm a pure THC snob, so my views are probably different than most, and a fast up then down short high is actually a sign of a high THC low CBD resin profile that I like. Different gene location executions produce different
resins, as long as the THC is getting produced I'm happy, my two cents worth.

"There's not much aroma unless I rub it a bit, but even then it's not very rich smelling." Again, if the genes aren't executed (often or much) the resins aren't produced, aroma. Also, some of the more Skunky smells come from later oxidation of the resins AFTER they are produced/secreted by the plant.

THC has no Aroma/Smell, and it must be over 120F to melt and over 300F to vaporize (vaping!).

As I said, I'm (we are) after THC first and formost, which is my (our) preferences, so it's extremely valuable for us to get your interpretations of these things. I also grow Sativas that have low odor and prefer low odor strains as opposed to dealing with air scrubber issues.

As a rule, less aroma/odor indicates that the final stages of ripeness, for standard type plants, has not been reach yet. Which would indicate that you would want more equivalent SID time, if you want to reach this stage.

You should get better results the 2nd time arround. While these currently harvested plants sufferred a lot of timer experimentation and didn't get much actual flowering time in. You may even notice different potency and resin characteristic at different locations on the plants and in the locations of the buds, since parts that developed under different timer schedules can have different characteristics of potency/ripeness.

(looking up) Oops! Theres another monster post problem manifestation.

Sorry, been looking forward to you harvest results. Got a case of anxious little boy going on! :jointsmile:

Keep up the good work. Keep up the fun stuff.

By the time Halloween rolls arround you guys are gonna be monsters!

With more fun still to spare for Halloween!

Take Care, Sal.

P.S. Congratulations are in order for Dogsnova as well, you've made the Beta Grade! Keep those pictures coming, they look great!

[Dogznova]

P.S. Congratulations are in order for Dogsnova as well, you've made the Beta Grade! Keep those pictures coming, they look great!

Sweet!!..... Thank's... I guess it soon will be time for me to leave the "nest" and start my own HPS Martian Method tread. No more treadjacking of mother's tread. It will be about three weeks until I can start it. Again thank you guy's at TEMPORAL PHOTONICS..:yippee:

Sorry about the bandwidth overload Dog, too much time swapping heads with RAUBER and I'm still in lightspeed overload mode from throwing all these posts between threads.

This quote on post #174 "Gotta take a break! (YOU KNOW YOU NEED IT!!!)" was exactly correct at that time (it's like you were in my head)..LOL

Awesome job on the backup of this tread.

Again, the short version is, you don't need to now all the micro info on everything, you just need to know how to tune in the timer, up or down on the equivalent SID.

I hope I'm not sounding like the "Just give us the answers" crowd..

P.s. I like the long version. That was one hell of an explanation you gave back there. I need to learn more on the timer tuning for sure. Got lot's of time in tuning a Holley carburetor..LOL