First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

[salmayo]

Sal n Dogz never showed up at IC Mag, just Knna and most of the real growers.

For some reason they didn't send email confirms to Rauber nor later to myself, so we couldn't post at IC Mag.

Weezard, my partner Rauber ran across your post there:

I'm sure by now, you've read about the "Martian Method"
and I highly recommend any posts by Salmayo or KNNA.
on "Artificial Darkness".
Those two are on to something.

And He'd appreciate it if you didn't make that kind of claim again (it isn't true, regardless of what someone might of thought they were contributing).

My partner objects to others being given credit for 20 plus years of HIS work, not to mention he was particularly disturbed that he was being likenned to, identified as, confused or associated with that individual.

To put it bluntly, he finds that person particularly abusive, and doesn't want any association with himself, our organization (Temporal Photonics), and especially our AD work, with that person.

I'm very sorry to have to make a post like this, but my partner is insisting, and I think it's better that I do it, than if he expressed it personally in his current mood.

With that said, hopefully the issue will be forgotten.

Thanks, Sal.

salmayo Reviewed by salmayo on 02-05-2009. First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method" In order to keep track of events, at the request of some online friends, and in order to share the love with the rest of the cannabis community, I'm starting my first grow log using the Martian Method, which I learned about from a very helpful Salmayo, here: http://www..com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30203&highlight=Martian and it has also been discussed in another thread on this board, starting at post 1438: http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-lighting/150174-perfect-led-grow-light-58.html Rating: 5

[Weezard]

For some reason they didn't send email confirms to Rauber nor later to myself, so we couldn't post at IC Mag.

Weezard, my partner Rauber ran across your post there:


And He'd appreciate it if you didn't make that kind of claim again (it isn't true, regardless of what someone might of thought they were contributing).

Yup realized that I made it look like Knna had something to do with A.D., after my edit time expired.

For the record; Nothing could be less true.


Don't even know why I included him in "on to something"
Could not have been a worse linking.
I certainly was not thinking'.
My bad!

Wish I could say that it'll never happen again.
I can say that that particular idiocy won't.
But, given my love of all things green. I'm sure to fuck up in some new way.

My partner objects to others being given credit for 20 plus years of HIS work, not to mention he was particularly disturbed that he was being likenned to, identified as, confused or associated with that individual.


To put it bluntly, he finds that person particularly abusive, and doesn't want any association with himself, our organization (Temporal Photonics), and especially our AD work, with that person.

OK. I get it and agree.

I'm very sorry to have to make a post like this, but my partner is insisting, and I think it's better that I do it, than if he expressed it personally in his current mood.

He's got every right. I'd be pissed as well.
Sorry Rauber,.
No malice, just loose wig.

With that said, hopefully the issue will be forgotten.

Um, what were we talking about?


Thanks, Sal.

Aloha,
Weezard

[salmayo]

It seems that the log ends after the 18th of December now, so I guess everything after that disappeared?

Right after the forums became unavailable, I switched my lighting to:
6 hours everything on
7 hours Red LED and Red Incandescent
10 hours darkness
1 hour Red LED and Red Incandescent

That seemed to sit the plants right down so they didn't grow any taller, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't allow for much new root growth, and since roots decay over time, the plants don't have much chance of reaching their potential.

Under conventional (THE OLD) timing concepts, you're flowering under a 14/10 schedule, but by AD definitions you're using a 6/18 schedule and more specifically a 6/(7/10/1) schedule, or less specifically a 6/(10/8) schedule.

Congratulations are definitely in order. :thumbsup:

Now consider that the slower growth rate can be attributed to a SID equivalent time similar to 10/14 or something more extreme in that direction away from 12/12 to something more likely to induce dormancy/senility/ceasence.

So I hate to say it, but you need to consider whether or not you got the AD moving faster than you thought and overshot your equivalent SID time beyond 12 hours SID.

The root mass factor is there, but it takes some time for the plant to slow down due to root growth imbalance.

The good news is, you can go back the other way on the timer, and you now know you can get it to flower in the zone.

You could trade some Blue for SID time, but that would only add a small amount of Blue with Red time. Whereas if you trade AD for SID you will get more AD without changing the Blue (root) factor, giving a better AD verses SID comparison result.

Also, the more SID you exchange to AD, the more photosynthetic energy you can deliver to the plants.

Congratulations again mother. :thumbsup:

I was hoping you had gotten there during the interrum this thread was down.

The Perfect LED Grow Light thread is still down unfortunately, I hope they saved that Big Monster.

Good to see all you guys back.

Take Care, Sal.

[salmayo]

A mild mannerred correction (nothing condemming, not our intentions) posted at that thread would make my working conditions a lot less stressful.

If you wouldn't mind.

It'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again, I now Rauber will be relieved.

Good to see you back so soon.

Gotta run. See ya soon.

Take Care, Sal.

[Weezard]

Hmmm.
I thought my editing rights evaporated for old posts with each new post

A mild mannerred correction (nothing condemming, not our intentions) posted at that thread would make my working conditions a lot less stressful.

If you wouldn't mind.

It'd be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again, I now Rauber will be relieved.

Good to see you back so soon.

Different board, different rules.

Hope the fix meets with your partner's approval.

"I'm sure by now, you've read about the "Martian Method"
and I highly recommend any posts by Salmayo or Rauber
on "Artificial Darkness".

'zat mo' betta?
Damn! Wish we had extended editing rights here,
I'd go back and fix lotsa f. u. s

Aloha,
Ditzy Weeze.
(got a lot on my mind, I'll be betta' come Friday)

Gotta run. See ya soon.

Take Care, Sal.

[Mother]

Under conventional (THE OLD) timing concepts, you're flowering under a 14/10 schedule, but by AD definitions you're using a 6/18 schedule and more specifically a 6/(7/10/1) schedule, or less specifically a 6/(10/8) schedule.

Congratulations are definitely in order. :thumbsup:

Thanks and thanks for all the guidance!

Now consider that the slower growth rate can be attributed to a SID equivalent time similar to 10/14 or something more extreme in that direction away from 12/12 to something more likely to induce dormancy/senility/ceasence.

So I hate to say it, but you need to consider whether or not you got the AD moving faster than you thought and overshot your equivalent SID time beyond 12 hours SID.

I had a sneaking suspicion that was the case. The plants' growth has been slowing and at this point it seems almost stagnant. Basically, I've been shorting my plants a third of the AD light they could handle! I hadn't put a lot of attention into thinking about their senescence both because this board has been down and I've been busy with school, but that makes good sense!

The root mass factor is there, but it takes some time for the plant to slow down due to root growth imbalance.

The good news is, you can go back the other way on the timer, and you now know you can get it to flower in the zone.

You could trade some Blue for SID time, but that would only add a small amount of Blue with Red time. Whereas if you trade AD for SID you will get more AD without changing the Blue (root) factor, giving a better AD verses SID comparison result.

Also, the more SID you exchange to AD, the more photosynthetic energy you can deliver to the plants.

I'll take four hours of SID and turn it into two more hours of AD, making it a roughly 6/12/6 (but really a 6/11/6/1) cycle. Although that's a big change, I think it will be OK because I previously figured out that my combo of red LEDs and Inc produced a time factor of about 2, so that should appear to the plant to be 6/12. If it's too aggressive I can back it off, and if it's not too aggressive, I can make it so and see where the tipping point is, because I just can't leave well enough alone if there are questions to be answered!

Weez: I can't believe I didn't even read the instructions on the bag. I'm the kind of person that usually reads the instructions first! I don't think I'll have the problems of my 'ton getting away from me, as I deal with soil(less) now and in my situation, that's way more messy than a little 'ton anyway, so it will be a nice change. I also would like media that I don't have to discard (for others to find...) if I can avoid it, so hydroton it is!
The nutes I use come well recommended, but I will probably experiment myself to see what results they bring me personally. Every grow setup is different, so nutes that boost for some are less effective for others, and I want to find out what works best for mine.
What kind of water do you add your CalMag to? Why I'm asking is my tap water is around 600-700 ppm after going through the filter (which removes all kinds of unwanted things, but does not remove minerals). I know I don't need CalMag for lack of minerals in my water, but I don't know if the minerals are beneficial either. I haven't had any apparent mineral deficiencies in my soilless plants, I just wonder if it the same for hydro...

And you got nothing but respect from me, god knows an edit button makes all the difference sometimes. I hope Friday is Good Friday.

[salmayo]

WEEZ-
Like I said, we never got email confirmations to post on IC Mag, so I assumed that you could only post a typo reference later, but that edit's even better.

My partner is very pleased with it, and even gave me the go ahead to do some basic math breakdowns, to give mother a nudge at an interval halving projection on which way to go, to confirm the sensence (reversal) trend I indicated in the last post to her.

Thanks for that Weezard. Mush Appreciated!
(That should have been "Much Appreciated", but that little Freudian brainfart slip says so much on so many levels, I just had to leave it!)

MOTHER-
Mother I'll get right on that, but that cache'd posts for this thread that were lost lost right before (or when) the thread came back seem to be destroying some information I assumed would still be here and doesn't seem to be coming back. So I'm gonna try to hustle and get an archive of this stuff at linked over from my 24/12 thread to a 4/20 thread for your log here (it's yours after all). So I'm probably be bussy with that all day.

But, just so you know Mother, you are now considerred an OFFICIAL member of our Beta Testers group and will be getting full credit for your work in our publications. And you are officially the FIRST Internet Beta Tester we have, since our other Beta Testers are were not allowed to post on the Internet (BOY ARE THEY ENVIOUS). We'll be featuring a review of your thread at our upcoming local Beta meeting, basically bringing everyone up to speed on where we are at with public disclosure and whatnot (stuff you already know).

:thumbsup:

So I'll be back ASAP, but I really should have archived that stuff before and now I really gotta get on it. Hopefully I'll be able to find some cache'd stuff like my 4/20 (4/(10/10)) posts that didn't seem to make it back up.

See ya soon. Till then...

Take Care, Sal.

(THANKS AGAIN WEEZ, AND CONGRATULATIONS MOTHER!!!) :thumbsup:

[Dogznova]

Cool it's back. "CONGRATULATIONS MOTHER" :clap:

[Weezard]

Weez: I can't believe I didn't even read the instructions on the bag. I'm the kind of person that usually reads the instructions first! I don't think I'll have the problems of my 'tron getting away from me, as I deal with soil(less) now and in my situation, that's way more messy than a little 'tron anyway, so it will be a nice change. I also would like media that I don't have to discard (for others to find...) if I can avoid it, so hydroton it is!

That's the major advantage, it is re-usable.

The nutes I use come well recommended, but I will probably experiment myself to see what results they bring me personally. Every grow setup is different, so nutes that boost for some are less effective for others, and I want to find out what works best for mine.

:clap:Beeg Mahalo fo' dat.
Not everything is snake oil.
But tales of "I used this gunk and this years crop is tits!" Or the seller's hyperbole are of little use.
However, an organized and intelligent grower, (that would be you), who understands double-blind testing and can afford to lose a plant or three?
Priceless and appreciated!
I haven't the room or the attention span.

What kind of water do you add your CalMag to? Why I'm asking is my tap water is around 600-700 ppm after going through the filter (which removes all kinds of unwanted things, but does not remove minerals). I know I don't need CalMag for lack of minerals in my water, but I don't know if the minerals are beneficial either. I haven't had any apparent mineral deficiencies in my soilless plants, I just wonder if it the same for hydro...

No worries brah! you don't need CalMag.

My tap water is too damn pure. Runs 120 -130 ppm!
When they remember to add trace minerals at all.

That gave me about 6 weeks of jus' fine, then almost overnight, I lost a beautiful momma.
Stinky Attic nailed the cause for me and saved my clones.
I have to add CalMag at 1 tsp per gallon to hit 250ppm.
Then I call it water, and mix the nutes.

The tap water PH is a moving target as well.
(Our state motto is; "Half assed is more than good enough".)
So after nuting-up I titrate for PH, every time.

And you got nothing but respect from me, god knows an edit button makes all the difference sometimes. I hope Friday is Good Friday.

Mahalo !
Got choke folks prayin' for us, I'm optimistic.

Aloha,
Weezard

[Weezard]

Aloha Sal,

If you don't have the 4/10/10 etc. posts handy.
I'm pretty sure I had the good sense to save the e-mail with real info.
Let me rummage around here and see what I find.

Ah! here's one:

"Remember you're all studing genetics verses environment here, so it is very important to separate the two, when interpreting results.

I hope you realize, that in spite of the fact that We're watching you repeat what we've done (for the sake of our education on How you think, we're studing YOU studying the plant, and there are no wrong answers in this respect of OUR interpretting YOU and your psyche's), your journey here is identical in our eyes to as if you were the first growers trying to grow indoors under artificial lights and the only place you had to start from was from your only know 14/10 Outdoor references. Technology for us in our sad waiting game of economics has become a time machine allowing us to watch (our own and others) histories unfold (through you) for the first time (again... and again).

You started at 12/12 real time, coming from 14/10 SID time (just like they did coming from 14/10 SOD time originally, and not to far off Temporally), asking the same historical question again (as did we), "What will give us the same results as 14/10 SOD (or 12/12 SID)?" But now, just as then, the questions answer is qualitative and existists in mind's eye and the question becomes (just as it did then), "What will give us the same results THAT FEELs as 14/10 SOD (or 12/12 SID) (to us???)?"

Not to worry, but just so you know where some of this comes from:
AND NOW HERE COMES DA PAIN!!! I hate to torture your minds with this, but few think as we do...

When interpreting results from your work (as we do with both it and it relevance to you), try to avoid the assumption that these Techno Environmentally triggerred results MAY GIVE WHAT YOU CONSIDER CONFLICTING RESULTS - IF you assume ("to make an" ass/u/me), that the results are indivisibly linked through a single mechanism (genetic, regulatory or whatever), when in fact it is perhaps just as likely that these individual responces occur in parallel under NATURAL environmental stimuli, but are also separable if triggerred under Artifical laboratory (completely unnatural) environmental stimuli (such as an unnaturally divided spectral stimuli, which is definition of Artificial Darkness's functionallity).

BUT!!! Rather than strain you way through GrandMaster mental gymnastics, take instead the simple tool:

You see that things are related, one to another.
Now simply consider more than two things in this. (Once you relate two things, you can relate other aspects to the first two (if only in character of action, rather than dependence on some action).

AND!!! Before this spirals out of control with sensory overload, remember the saving grace of deduction. Removing those things that are not significant, leaves those things that are.

Determining something can be eliminated from consideration is a thing of joy for brain strainers. Or as Forest Gump put it, "Which is good, like my Momma always says, THAT'S JUST ONE MORE THING NOT TO WORRY ABOUT.

So, don't worry.

If the hairs are light colorred due to strain genetics, don't worry. And especially, if you don't care about the hair color verse things that are more important QUALITIES to you personally, THEN especially don't worry.

Let me worry (I used to be the best worrier on this horrid crash site of a planet). I'll fritter away the Darkness on wether or not spectrum responsive reccessive genetics or regulation that affect pigmentation in the plants and have multiply interdependent and/or independent environmental triggering (they do - remember that THC is a pigment and pigment synthesis is therefore at the core of most investigations in such matters, but also remember that it's all in the trends between this and that).

Just go with the flow (trends). Let us worry about the who came first, the Martian or the Migrain.

And that comes from your friendly neighborhood would be psycho analysis.

P.S. - Take two bingers, and call just call it a morning. (Dr. Feelgood)

-----------------------------------------------------------
420 AD, sounds like 4/(10/10) to me... ...but due to relativity... ...it's ALL Ancient History (AH - Ah Ha) you see. (AD, ND, AH, SID, SOD... ...even the abbreviations are turning into an epic.)

Mother - I'd add more AD, rather than exchange for ND, but that's just me (starting and looking back on a 0/24 perspective going in the other direction, not 12/12).

Do what YOU ARE going to do, that's what we're here to see, and you guys give great SHOW! And I promise the last half hour of this flick is worth it, I've seen more times than I can count and it never gets old.

The fact that you are getting flowering at all (+- an hours or so of real time SID equivalency), DOES NOT agree with the pseudoscience of the established yet untested assumptions on photoperiodism in vascular plants - this is were the mandate of throwing out the old and using the new in REAL SCIENCE prevails over assumption. For it is the assumption of Empirical Science (Real Science) that we can be mistaken, and the power of Empirical Science to document (admit) and learn from failure (accept).

I only wish there were more of a mandate to publish failures, but failures are less in demand than the more sensational "successes", and admittedly humans tend to be rather shy about their so called failures. And so we find ourselves with successes based on missassumption, and lacking failures pointing towards the Holy Grail of TRUTH (for this is the quest of all true science, not success).

Thanks goodness we fail to succeed, how else could we hope to defeat the barriors of assumption and find ourselves were Truth may reveal itself to us, if we can simply stand our ground long enough for it to reveal itself - SM.

Keep up the work and the good results, which is your fine honing of the skills needed to handle what is coming...

Techno Shock is denial, denial is based on assumption. Assumption is the bug. Denial is the symptom. And, SHOCK is needless sufferred, if at all.

Thanks you all for your effort, it may not lead us to the answers We want, but I sure could hurt (anything but Our heads).

Take Care, Sal. (You're getting there!)
***************"

Got choke!
Which ones do ya need and how do ya wannem?

Regards Weeze