First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

[farredeyed]

Far red with darkness happens every day outdoors I think. It's proven and tested. Green house effect is one.

well, i mean just using lasers, this far red light biz is pretty well proven and seems to be being pretty well tested

[Dogznova]

Here is week 7 pic's. This is the same flower as before but with a group shot. The plants are starting to ripen up pretty good now that we turned off the Martian Lights. Somewhere sal was talking about finishing up his flowers on just red INC.'s only (no other light in the 24 hour day). I wonder if that would help ripen our flowers faster. The plants are still about a week behind or so (from using red cfl's only during the Martian nights). The second pic is a cropped shot from the first pic. This time the pic's were taken using my sisters digital camera.

[Mother]

Hey Dog, looks like your plants are coming along better than mine, but you're treating yours way nicer.

Mine are finally starting to flower once again. The timing is currently at:
10 hours daylight
3 hours Martian night
10 hours SID
1 hour Martian night

which would put the time factor for the light spectrum I'm using right around 2.0. Why 2.0? Because I'm replacing 2 hours of total darkness with 4 hours of "night light". The plants need a full four hours under the night spectrum I'm using in order to make up for only 2 hours of total darkness, so the "time clock" of the plants is running only half as fast when the Martian lights are on. But on the flip side, I'm getting four hours of night photosynthesis in trade for two hours of day photosynthesis. I'd definitely get more if my Red was not 660 nm, the peak for Pr sensitivity.

The Martian night lights I'm using are:
52 watts of 660 nm Red (672 individual 5mm LEDs, which are not terribly efficient)
50 watts of Red Incandescent light

I also swapped the two 26 watt 55/6500k CFLs back for two 42w 2700k ones because the heat is less of a factor now.

Hopefully that helps provide at least some information that will help us figure out the time factor of each of the spectrums.

The plants have been quite stretchy recently, which I expected because of the high levels of both Red and Far Red during early flowering. Sal has warned that Far Red during early flowering promotes stem elongation whereas Red inhibits it, and tests by Dogznova have also confirmed this.

It broke my heart to do it, but I had to top about 4-5 inches off the newer HDF plant because it was already getting too tall for the cabinet, and it's less than a week in actual flowering conditions. Hopefully the stretch slows down so I don't have to do the same thing to the Vanilla Moon. We'll see!

I know I could just alter the spectrum and schedule to prevent it, but my goal is more to learn what happens than to make anything specific happen. At some point, when I've gotten what I need to out of these plants, I'll try a real crop with a real, adapting, Martian spectrum.

I'll also have pictures soon. I'm not lazy, I'm very busy.

[salmayo]

First pic, main cola of HDF
Second pic, main stem of BK
Third pic, space with all four plants in it. The one on the left is Vanilla Moon, the one on the right is HDF.

I take it that this was on the fallowing schedule:

which tonight is changing to:
10 hours daylight
4 hours, 45 minutes Martian night
8 hours, 15 minutes SID
1 hour Martian night

so you can see the pattern. I'll keep the daylight time and the 1 hour daybreak the same throughout.

Before I try and catch up on reading, I wanted to make sure to comment on these pictures mother posted.

They tell two main things:
1. The stem elongation indicates that there is too much Far Red (or not enough Red) in the spectrum for the first (stretch) phase of flowering. (I mentioned that I don't use much Far Red during early flowering, to avoid adding too much stretch (internode elongation).

2. The dark cycles equivalent SID time is less than 12 hours and the plant is revegging/vegging.

~3. The single pinnation (fingerred) leaves indicate that you're closer to flowering (1 fingerred leaves) than vegging (5 or more fingerred leaves).

I use morphological indicators, like stretch, to help me sellect the spectrum I wish to use (for a given stage of plant developement, ~morphology). THEN, once I have the kind of grow habit I want (just below stretching), I let the spectrum dictate the proper schedule to use in order to get the equivalent of 12 hours of SID.

I would definitely increase the equivalent SID time some more.

If you leave the Spectrum alone, you will at least have a fast growth rate to produce morphology in the new growth to help you better gauge the plants responces.

Now if I can make enough time to read up to where you're all at, I might be able to tell you something more useful.

[Mother]

Is it working again?

[Weezard]

Is it working again?

Welcome back, Ma.

Weezard

[Mother]

Welcome back Weez!

It seems that the log ends after the 18th of December now, so I guess everything after that disappeared?

Right after the forums became unavailable, I switched my lighting to:
6 hours everything on
7 hours Red LED and Red Incandescent
10 hours darkness
1 hour Red LED and Red Incandescent

That seemed to sit the plants right down so they didn't grow any taller, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't allow for much new root growth, and since roots decay over time, the plants don't have much chance of reaching their potential.

Here are current pictures. The first is HDF, the second is cheese, the third is vanilla moon and the last is bubba kush. They're all abused looking because they've all been abused but they're also coming along ok, considering their treatment.

The HDF should be ready in a week or so, judging by the trichomes.

After these plants are done, I'm switching to hydro and starting with a new batch. :thumbsup:

Weez: I have no previous experience with hydro, so I will be in need of your assistance as my first hydro experiment is a four-plant DWC bucket that's going in this spot. It's up and running but my pH keeps rising fast, like .7 points overnight (meaning going from 5.5 to 6.2), every night, and I'm trying to figure out why or if that's normal... ?

[Weezard]

Welcome back Weez!

It seems that the log ends after the 18th of December now, so I guess everything after that disappeared?

Didn't really lose too much.
Crashed around the 21st of Dec.
Only lost 3 or 4 days of posts.
I'm sure somebody worked their asses off trying to recover as much as possible

Weez: I have no previous experience with hydro, so I will be in need of your assistance as my first hydro experiment is a four-plant DWC bucket that's going in this spot. It's up and running but my pH keeps rising fast, like .7 points overnight (meaning going from 5.5 to 6.2), every night, and I'm trying to figure out why or if that's normal... ?

If you are using hydrotron without pre-conditioning it first with an "acid bath", yes it's "normal".
Hydrotron needs to be thouroughly rinsed and then soaked in low PH water for 24 hours or so.

I let it sit for a week. Then re-rinse and I still get PH creep for the first 2 weeks
PITA? You bet,
I have 50 pounds of the crap on-hand and have switched to coco coir in the net pots with a 1" layer of Hydrotron and Rockwool chips in the bottom.
Also found that a few 4" lengths of cotton string dangling from the bottom of the pots will keep them moist as the water level drops and add strength n support to the roots when I switch 'em to a fresh bucket-o-nutes.
[attachment=o212662]
[attachment=o212661]
Seems to work, ya?

We've all been hanging out at ICMag while Cdot was down.
KNNA is there, trying to bring them up to speed regarding LEDs.
It's an uphill climb.

Good to be back here in the 21st century.:thumbsup:

Aloha,

Weezard

[Mother]

I AM using hydroton without having given it an acid bath. The guys at the hydro strore said hydroton was the best media, and didn't say anything about soaking it... I have less and less confidence in their advice every time I ask for it. They also said that no fungicide (like Botanicare Hydroguard) was necessary because of the constant aeration of DWC. Is that correct? Right now my mix is:
1/4 strength Pure Blend Pro Grow
1/4 strength Maxicrop
full strength Hygrozyme
full strength Liquid Karma
pH down as necessary to reach 5.5

Does this sound reasonable?

So 1" of hydroton in the bottom then fill with coco coir? Do I need to condition the coir as well? Just a rinse, or a soak, or a treatment?

Thanks for the advice, and sorry if I ask too many questions!


I bet a lot of people worked their asses off to get this site back running, and although they'll probably not hear it, I appreciate their hard work!

I was wondering where everyone was hanging out. I googled some of your names, but I couldn't find anything for you or sal or dogz, so I just hung out waiting for this site to resurrect itself.

[Weezard]

I AM using hydroton without having given it an acid bath. The guys at the hydro strore said hydroton was the best media, and didn't say anything about soaking it...

(Best = We got choke dis stuff. Gotta move it!)
I guess they expected you to read the instructions on the bag, ya?

I have less and less confidence in their advice every time I ask for it. They also said that no fungicide (like Botanicare Hydroguard) was necessary because of the constant aeration of DWC. Is that correct?

Dunno how correct dat is or isn't.
I use no fungicide.
My water temp can hit 90 F. in the outside tubs.
Never had root rot, so far.

The aeration is major!
I have my airpumps on a Battery back-up.

MJ will survive without light for weeks, if it has to.
But, depending on transpiration and tub size, a few hours of no air can be fatal!

Right now my mix is:
1/4 strength Pure Blend Pro Grow
1/4 strength Maxicrop
full strength Hygrozyme
full strength Liquid Karma
pH down as necessary to reach 5.5

Does this sound reasonable?

Probably. I'm no nute expert.

I'm a minimalist.

Since I discovered that the highly revered SuperThrive was total B.S., I've avoided all the "goodie-grow-fast" snake oil out there.
My buckets contain water, CalMag, and Dyna-grow or Dyna-bloom at between 700 and 1200 ppm and two airstones.
PH north and south of 5.6.
That seems to do O.K.
[attachment=o212690]

Was still a li'l "fluffy for my taste, so I added some CO2, lowered the ambient temps and gave 'em a little more blue.
I'll have some budporn in another 3 weeks or so.

So 1" of hydroton in the bottom then fill with coco coir? Do I need to condition the coir as well? Just a rinse, or a soak, or a treatment?

You don't actually need to use coco once the hydrotron is conditioned properly.
I use it because the 'tron is a royal PITA to play with.
Gets loose everywhere . Hurts bare feet and crushes to a gritty staining powder under shoes.

Coco is PH neutral but contains no nutes or beni-bacteria
Treat it like hydro.
(If you treat it like soil, things get ugly fast.)
I always add about an 1/8 strength nutes to the first wetting
unless it's for seedlings

Thanks for the advice, and sorry if I ask too many questions!

Not at all.
How do you think I learned?

First, I read all the FAQs here.
Then I pestered every good grower I could find.
Stinky Attic and Weedhound were very patient with me.


I bet a lot of people worked their asses off to get this site back running, and although they'll probably not hear it, I appreciate their hard work!

Amen! I used to do data recovery and network repairs.
I don't miss living with other people's panic attacks.

I was wondering where everyone was hanging out. I googled some of your names, but I couldn't find anything for you or sal or dogz, so I just hung out waiting for this site to resurrect itself.

Sal n Dogz never showed up at IC Mag, just Knna and most of the real growers.
LED-wise, you didn't miss much.

Aloha, Ma.
Weezard