First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"

[Mother]

Ok, so fr speeds up the night (SID). Now we just need to know how fast it makes it and at what level of intensity we need. Also what if one was adding a certain amount of far red in the day time hours. Does it change the (AD) Martian light math or know? Just thinking in the over all 24 hour speed of things.

Well, Far Red speeds up the plant's clock. That's a good question about it's effects during the day, I was wondering that too. I suspect the relationship is not the same as during the night, but I'm not sure why or how.

[Weezard]

Well, Far Red speeds up the plant's clock. That's a good question about it's effects during the day, I was wondering that too. I suspect the relationship is not the same as during the night, but I'm not sure why or how.

Wow!
Wow!
Fricking wow!
Waiting patiently for illumination.

Weeze

[Dogznova]

I has to change it some wouldn't you think. :smokin:

[Dogznova]

So here is something I'm thinking. If the plants outdoor clock is running 2 hours faster. I think the exposure of far red in the day gives it one hour and the exposure of far red at night gives it the other hour.. Sound too god to be true

[farredeyed]

I've been researching LED lighting for the last year or more, and it's only been recently that efficiency as far as light out, has gotten good enough that I'm about ready to build some sort of agricultural LED unit. First I ran accross the 'perfect led light' thread and now this one.

After trolling around here the last few days I really have to thank you all for sharing the knowledge and turning me on to all this.. I'd like to share some info I ran accross pertaining to unlocking an optimised red/far-red day/AD cycle I hope it helps someone..

The plant physiology link has soem hardcore data on effects or red/far-red on a plants co2 intake and circadian rhthym - which i think might hold the key for an amature like myself in trying to get plants to adapt and thrive by the artificial rhthym of the artificial darkness

The other link is to a page on the USDA website, it has a bit of history on far-red and agriculturalists that goes back to the early 1900's (wow) but also has some good plugs of info they give away since the US has been trying to unlock the secrets artificial darkness since 1959

www.plantphysiol.org/cgi/reprint/67/5/965.pdf

ARS Research Timeline - Story on Phytochrome, Other Light Research

[Mother]

Using the borrowed camera and it ran out of battery. Sigh.

I just wanted to show some pics for progress' sake and to clearly show the re-vegging of the plants.

Maybe this weekend.

[Mother]

I'm going to start scaling back the timing on my Martian night, converting to SID 15 mins per night, every night until my plants are clearly flowering again, then I'll slowly head back the other direction to see how far I can push back and keep them flowering. That should eventually tell me where the threshold is, and by extension, the time factor of the light spectrum I'm running.

The first night is tonight!

The current schedule is:
10 hours daylight
5 hours Martian night
8 hours SID
1 hour Martian night

which tonight is changing to:
10 hours daylight
4 hours, 45 minutes Martian night
8 hours, 15 minutes SID
1 hour Martian night

so you can see the pattern. I'll keep the daylight time and the 1 hour daybreak the same throughout.

[Dogznova]

Hi mother, We are having good luck so far. But we are also flowering with a very warm 24 hour K temp spectrum (very little blue). The reason I'm saying this is because I think the warmer 24 hour K temp we use the more Martian light our plants will let us have. I'm sure of this. So if I was you I would change your t5 bulbs back to the 2,700K bulbs for starters JMO. We have now figured out (our particular plants) love the warm 24 hour K spectrum for about the first three weeks or so (excites the hell out of the flowering genes). Then my uncle and I need to start to ether A. bringing the Martian light time down each week to allow the plants to think there is more (blue light) in the 24 hour K spectrum. Or B. switch the 400w bulb to one that has more (blue light) in it. My uncle is going to do B first and depending on how blue his 24 hour K spectrum is at that time he's also going to have to make a decision on how long he will keep the Martian lights on. As for blue 400w HPS bulbs. We have alot to chose from. 2,200k 3k 4k 6,500k 10,000k 12,000k 14,000k 20,000k (we will not be going above 10,000k). I believe all of these bulbs will require a different Martian Light schedule or a different Martian Light intensity or both IMO.

Just a re-cap. I believe my uncle and I will get our best results by starting out the flowering cycle with a very WARM 24 hour K temp. Then after exciting the flowers for about three weeks with the warm 24 hour K temp. We will then start to add blue in to the mix (to build bulk). Right now with very little (blue light) in the mix I see exactly what's happening to my uncles plants. LOL.... By the end of week 7 we should be almost up to using that 10,000K bulb....... Again JMO.

Please go warmer with the 24 hour K spectrum at first :thumbsup:

[Mother]

Dog: interesting observations and ideas. It seems to follow the pattern outside that as fall progresses, the B:R ratio increases even as the day shortens and the night lengthens.

How about this:
You keep experimenting with the day, and I'll keep my experiment going with the night until I figure out the time rate of the night light that I'm using. Once I find that, I'll play with daylight color spectrum to see if that alters the effects of the night spectrum. If I'm changing both day and night spectrums at the same time, I won't be able to tell which one is making the difference. Also, I changed down from 42w to 26w 6500K bulbs because of heat issues, and the only 2700K bulbs I have are also 42w, so I'm not sure I'd be able to use them without cooking the plants.

There's a whole lot to be investigated here, and if you work on one part while I work on another, we can figure things out at twice the rate! :thumbsup:

[farredeyed]

I'm trying to absorb all this as fast as I can, and.. my brain hurts. Mother, Salmayo, DogsNova, Has there been a formula established as to how long it takes for red(and how much red) to convert phytochrome to only absorb far red, and then how much far red it takes to convert back and how much time that process takes?

Do I have the whole concept wrong? It seems this whole thing is taking advantage of being able to control light frequencies indoors and using red and far red to bounce the phytochrome back and forth unnaturally to feed constantly and speed up growth, while keeping blue seperately controlled.

I do not, at all,understand how introducing yellow, orange or green would make sense. If the plants photosynthesis of light is much lower rates at those frequencies, why not just use that electricity to add more red or blue?

I do understand UV-b is debated to be usefull. If one were leaning twards wanting to try some uv's in that range, would they have to go in during the blues time slot?