Prop 8 California Defeated? WTF?

[8182KSKUSH]

I started in on this but decided to create a new thread here.
Why/how did Prop 8 win in CA? With Obama winning, dems out in force? Who'd a thunk?
I am really sick to death with hearing the cry baby shit about it. This is why,

We didn't just "get" the law, we actually put it through ourselves through initiative. Government actually worked.... scary

OK,
I just wanted to take this moment to completely derail this thread, I am sorry.

I don't think that initiative referendum is a good thing, but that aside, you have it as do I, and you (you people in michigan) used it. Great, now let me ask you this.
How would you feel if 4 state supreme court activists judges overturned it and made MMJ illegal again?

You would not be very happy, nor should you be. Nor really should the people that oppose MMJ, simply because if you allow activist judges to legislate from the bench, you might as well not have any other legislative process period. Whose to say that at some point in the future some other activist judges overturn it again, and so on?

This happened here in CA.

So, putting it that way, do some of you here understand fundamentally why someone like myself would support Prop 8, to me, the issue of allowing activist judges to legislate directly from the bench, is a much more significant issue, than gay marriage.
Personally I could care less if the state of CA wants to "give" a special rights to anyone, personally, I fail to see how "getting married" is a preserved or garuanteed right? Are you kidding me?
But that aside, I realize that there is alot of, "oh it was the bible thumpers, blah whatever", I can't help but wonder if it wasn't just that most people realized that the end does not justify the means. The gay community should just pass a constitutional amendment in the next election. They just need 6-700K signatures, with money that is no problem. Look at some of the crap that got the required signatures, a fucking joke.
But gay marriage activists should not be satisfied with getting what they wanted via un-legit/unconstitutional means. Who would want that? At the same time, I would not support it if some crazy activist judges declared cannabis legal period here in CA. Think about it, once we allow judges to do this, where does it end? These powers are not given to them.

So when I explain this to folks, I get alot of glazed over deer in the headlights looks.
Someone called me a racist too?:wtf: Just for good measure I guess. LOL I dunno? Am I crazy, or is the issue of activist judges violating the rights of everyone, gay, straight, cow, chicken, a much more important issue than whether or not gays can marry? It kind of is to me.
And would people that support what the judges did, support the same action in Michigan if activist judges there struck down MMJ? I suspect that no one here would say "oh yeah that's ok!"
But many folks here are willing to say that when it comes to what was happening here in CA?
Doesn't exactly make sense.:jointsmile:

8182KSKUSH Reviewed by 8182KSKUSH on 11-17-2008. Prop 8 California Defeated? WTF? I started in on this but decided to create a new thread here. Why/how did Prop 8 win in CA? With Obama winning, dems out in force? Who'd a thunk? I am really sick to death with hearing the cry baby shit about it. This is why, OK, I just wanted to take this moment to completely derail this thread, I am sorry. Rating: 5

[RamblerGambler]

You dismiss the so-called "bible thumpers," yet Mormons played a huge role in robbing Californians of a perfectly reasonable right. As extrapolated in yesterdays New York Times, Mormons Tipped the Scale in Ban on Gay Marriage

Jeff Flint, another strategist with Protect Marriage, estimated that Mormons made up 80 percent to 90 percent of the early volunteers who walked door-to-door in election precincts.

Not only did LDS supply the foot soldiers, they footed the lions share of the bill as well.

In the end, Protect Marriage estimates, as much as half of the nearly $40 million raised on behalf of the measure was contributed by Mormons.

Simply put, the No on 8 movement lacked organization and was unable to overcome the superior ground game put into play by Yes on 8 and the LDS.

Suggested talking points were equally precise. If initial contact indicated a prospective voter believed God created marriage, the church volunteers were instructed to emphasize that Proposition 8 would restore the definition of marriage God intended.

But if a voter indicated human beings created marriage, Script B would roll instead, emphasizing that Proposition 8 was about marriage, not about attacking gay people, and about restoring into law an earlier ban struck down by the State Supreme Court in May.

"It is not our goal in this campaign to attack the homosexual lifestyle or to convince gays and lesbians that their behavior is wrong - the less we refer to homosexuality, the better," one of the ward training documents said. "We are pro-marriage, not anti-gay."

Pro-marriage, not anti-gay? Not a chance. Divide and conquer. And now California faces the possibility of stripping some of its citizens of a guaranteed right. Freedom and justice...for some.

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=ht...EXXWE_g0Q3AJ)G

[8182KSKUSH]

You dismiss the so-called "bible thumpers," yet Mormons played a huge role in robbing Californians of a perfectly reasonable right. As extrapolated in yesterdays New York Times, Mormons Tipped the Scale in Ban on Gay Marriage



Not only did LDS supply the foot soldiers, they footed the lions share of the bill as well.



Simply put, the No on 8 movement lacked organization and was unable to overcome the superior ground game put into play by Yes on 8 and the LDS.



Pro-marriage, not anti-gay? Not a chance. Divide and conquer. And now California faces the possibility of stripping some of its citizens of a guaranteed right. Freedom and justice...for some.

http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/15/us/politics/15marriage.html&OQ=_rQ3D1&OP=39f26407Q2FQ201grQ20R Q5BaAXQ5BQ5BJOQ20O44pQ20!!Q20!Q5EQ20Q7BAQ20kQ5BGWJ WaAQ20!Q5E)EXXWE_g0Q3AJ)G

So I'll put you down for "pro-activist judges" I guess? So you would not see a problem with "activist judges" striking down MMJ in a MMJ State where the voters had passed the measure via initiative referendum? When judges do that are they not violating the rights of every citizen?
Is the right to "get married" a right? That's news to me I guess.:wtf:

[RamblerGambler]

A right in the sense that it was added to the California constitution, not as in an inherent human right. As for the activist judges, I'm split on the issue. That term gets thrown around way too much these days and has picked up a fair amount of baggage.

[RobPA]

52% voted Yes to prop 8 correct? I was very surprised that it passed in Cali :thumbsup:

[8182KSKUSH]

52% voted Yes to prop 8 correct? I was very surprised that it passed in Cali :thumbsup:

defeated?
ya not sure why I worded the op that way?

[FreshNugz]

twas the religious right.
Sad on a day when so much progress had been made.

[rebgirl420]

This sort of thing makes me hang my head as a Republican. These crazy religious a-holes make the whole party look like religious nutjobs.

I for one believe that gay people have every right to marry. Who the hell am I to say they can't? No where in the constitution does it say anything about marriage. The government of all things has no right intruding on private citizens, especially for something so ridiculous.

Damnit, my tax dollars have better things to do than this bullshit.

LET THEM MARRY!

[killerweed420]

Hard to believe as liberal as cali is that they didn't pass this. I'm not gay but what boils my butt is how the people(bible thumpers primarily) think that this is even any of there business. I don't give a shit if you marry your goat. Its just a piece of paper. Marriage has nothing to do with religion. They all had concubines in the old days.
And as Ive said before, I'm way to right on most issues. I just don't see where this is anybodies business. Love is where you find it.

[foxfire342]

twas the religious right.
Sad on a day when so much progress had been made.

Oh please. You think the religious right in California passed this? hahaha. The fact is that a lot of the new black voters whom the democrats registered for Obama are very religious and don't support gay-marriage