Gardening by The Moon- a discussion of the technique

[LolaGal]

I do not want to seem arguementative or anything, just thought I'd try and answer a few questions I've been asked. So here goes...one of the reasons I haven't done this sooner, boring to retype stats. I have to do it all day long at work!

The Llewellyn's Moon Sign Book has been published since 1905. The Moon Sign Book uses the tropical zodiac. The Farmer's Almanac uses the sidereal zodiac. This can mean the difference between planting in a Barren or Fruitful sign. This is the reason a lot of people have tried gardening by the moon and could not see a difference when they tried it.

Some scientists that are credited with research on this subject are: Camille Flammarian, the French astronomer; Dr. Clark Timmins (one of the few modern scientists to have conducted tests in Moon Planting).

His experiments included the following:

Beets: When sown in fruitful sign of Scorpio germ rate 71% vs. 58% barren control.

Scotch Marigold: 90% vs. 32%

Carrots: 64% vs. 47%

Tomatoes: 90% vs. 58%

Two things should be emphasized. First, remember that this is only a summary of the results of the experiments; the experiments themselves were conducted in a scientific manner to eliminate any variation in soil, temperature, moisture, and so on, so that only the Moon sign varied. Second, note that these astonishing results were obtained without regard to the phase of the moon--the other factor we use in moon planting, and which presumably would have increased the differential in germination rates.

Dr. Timmins also tried transplanting Cancer and Leo planted tomato seedlings while the Cancer Moon was waxing. The result was 100 % survival. When transplanting was done with the waning Sagittarius Moon, there was 0% survival.

Dr. Timmins' tests show that the Cancer planted tomatoes had blossoms 12 days earlier than those planted under Leo; the Cancer planted tomatoes had an average height of 20 inches as compared to 15 inches planted in barren sign.


I seriously don't want to change anyone's minds, just answering questions.
I have read more of his experiments, but surely this is enough for the moment. Have fun researching!

[Dutch Pimp]

I would raise the light or offset the plants some; under that 400MH light. The UV rays from MH can be tuff on seedlings.

Different reflectors, beam light, differently.

[LolaGal]

Thanks Dutch, I did notice couple of tiny hot spots from light reflection on one leaf. I hope I ain't cookin em slowly at 78 degrees.......Man this is the best smell in the world. I just hover and sniff! Shaded under leaves look fine. Finally got my Radio Shack pocket microscope working. Thanks again. I guess it would be cheaper to go to Nashville and get supplies than order through mail. Any suggestions?

[Dutch Pimp]

I prefer to make what I get locally; work.

...http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-gro...acle-grow.html

[Rock.Steady]

I'm out here willing to take the hits challenging a fable. You take a chance on nothing, and offered nothing new

ok, fair enough.
I accept your challenge Sir, and offer this from my brief search of the internet.

Ohio State University Extension brief on planting by the lunar phases
an excerpt-
"Dr. Frank Brown of Northwestern University performed research over a ten year period. His findings were plants absorbed more water at the time of the Full Moon. He conducted his experiments in a laboratory without direct contact with the moon, yet he still found that the plants were influenced by the phase."

I admit this is about a growing plant, not a seed, yet references a study in the relationship of lunar phases as directly related to plants activities.

the majority of research I found available online directly referencing Dr. Brown's work is primarily focused on lunar effects on oysters. One of his many studies.

I would wonder if O.S.U. is willing to reference this Professor's work in a publication, if it were a bunch of voodoo?

There is also some study info online about New Zealand Iwi tribes who farm by a lunar calendar for 100's of years.

I also found this-
(from The Lunar Garden: Planting by the Moon Phases by E. A. Crawford)
an excerpt-
"Why the Moon Phase System Works

The time at which a seed is sown is the beginning of its life cycle. Final plant yield, as every gardener knows, is crucially affected by the conditions encountered by the seed....

The person most responsible for formal experimentation in this area is Maria Thun, whose research on her farm in Darmstadt, Germany, has been financially supported by a group of biodynamic farmers.

In 1952, Thun developed a method of sowing a fixed number of crop rows over a sidereal month. The term sidereal refers to the position of the moon in relationship to the stars or constellations in the sky behind it. In other words, Maria Thun sowed according to varying phases of the lunar cycle. Once the crop came to maturity, it was weighed and studied, and the results were recorded. Thun's findings were accumulated over a ten-year period from 1952 to 1962. The crop Thun chose to study initially was potatoes; subsequently she studied not only other root crops but also leaf crops, fruit-bearers and flowers.

Thun's results were surprising. She discovered that if potatoes were planted when the moon was in the constellations of Taurus, Capricorn or Virgo (traditionally termed "root days"), the crop was more prolific than if she planted when the moon was positioned in other constellations of the zodiac belt. After some thought, she concluded that potatoes did better if planted while the moon was clearly positioned in earth signs than at any other time. Potato crops planted when the moon was positioned in the constellations Cancer, Scorpio or Pisces--the water signs of the zodiac--did poorly.

The results of Thun's studies fascinated another experimenter in Germany. Graf repeated her method from 1973 to 1975, this time using many different types of soils, and planting radishes as well as potatoes. Graf discovered that sowing on root days affected positively the growth and production of crops, and got best result when using chemically untreated, organic soils.

In 1976, Kollerstrom and Muntz, Sussex market gardeners, repeated the experiments of Graf and Thun and gained a 45% increase in yield for crops sown on root days. Conducted over a period of two months, their study did not show that the phase of the moon, waxing or waning, made as much difference as the moon's placement in the sky at the time of sowing.

The effect of the phases of the moon on seed germination and growth was first studied by L. Kolisko in 1930. Using wheat, Kolisko found that seeds germinated faster and more prolifically when sown at the full moon. The new moon gave him the most unsuccessful results. Later experiments on cress confirmed Kolisko's findings. Recent studies at Northwestern University, conducted by Professor F. Brown, have shown that, even under equal temperatures, seedlings absorb more water at the full moon than at the new moon. The findings lend credibility to adages that recommend harvesting at full moon. It seems plants have less water content at the new moon phase. Professor Brown went so far as to test plants in a darkened laboratory where they would have no direct access to effects of sun or moon. The plants still responded to the moon phases.

Other experiments have been conducted at Wichita State University and at Tulane University. All have achieved the same results. Experimentation indicates that seeds sown just before or around the full moon have a higher rate and speed of germination than those sown at the new moon because seeds are able to absorb more water at the full moon...."

Planting By the Moon , Bibliography, with too many references to list here.

I found these in a couple hrs, without a super-computer. maybe you didn't use the best search terms?

Do these sound like references to fable and folklore?
Multiple studies going back to 1930, conducted by private individuals, public organizations, and universities.


I, sir, will also come out swinging if challenged
I really hope you don't make me mail away and request all the statistical data,,,ok, that was sarcastic. wanna call it a draw?:jointsmile:

[daihashi]

That's what I'm thinkin too Rock, too hot. I've been pushing temps and low humidity due to the mold trying to grow on top of soil.

I did use 1/3 perlite to the MG soil. Sorry, I want to Post Pics Badly. No camera that works, right now.

I just gave them about 1/8 teaspoon of Epsom to 1 gallon. Hadn't watered for about 4 days prior. Didn't even use 1/2 gallon of water let most run off when watered. I ususally tend to get Mag def. with the MG soil near start of grow.

Their roots are BUSTING, I can see dimly through the grow bags! I have em in about 2 quarts of soil each. New leaves look fine, just smidge of curling on edges of older leaves.

Thanks for the input, want to get a few opinions before deciding what to do. I know it would be great if you could see them.......sorry. I won't hold anyone responsible for diagnosing in the dark.


EDIT: Forgot to tell ya'll, I have 2 fans going and it's a 400 MH lite. Temps cool, so I have had light pretty close, but not hot on plants. Humidity 30%, 29%

I really don't understand how you're getting MG deficiency. MG does not have any Calcium leaching properties (like coco) that would effect Magnesium uptake or vice versa. In addition to this if you are using tap water Magnesium should also not be an issue. Feeding with epsom salt is just going to aggrevate a problem.

In regards to curling up or down. When your plants are being burned by nutrient rich soil when they are too young they will curl up.. curl down.. they will even curl in spirals. It doesn't matter.

What are your temperatures in your grow area. Do you have a thermometer at the canopy? You mentioned 78 degrees in a later post. Even with hot spots you would have to have a hot spot about 10-12 degrees above that in order to induce leaf curling.

You're also growing in grow bags. From the LITTLE that you have posted about your actual problem I would have to say it is something effecting the plant at the root level. Whether it be PH, soil mixture is too hot, or that your roots are being disturbed when their bags are moved.

I also believe your humidity is fine but it is worth mentioning that low humidity can lead to higher transpiration rates and this can also induce some leaf curling or something that looks similar. Your humidity is not low enough to consider that though.

And rock steady.. I was unaware of how old her plants are. The 1/4 strength dose only applies to plants old enough (typically 3 weeks old and older.)

[LolaGal]

HooWhee....Rock and I are busy beavers! That ought to be enough scientific data to last a while. Good job researching Rock! Thanks for the informative, and well written post!

I took your advice, Dutch and bumped the girls a little toward the back of the light footprint. The one gal that was in the back had little or no signs of curl.

If they aren't better in morning, I will continue with the other advice. Thanks all for the advice everybody. I'll try to keep that pH at 6.5.

My pH tester, aquarium, craps out at 7.6. When I test the tapwater, that is it's pH 7.6. Isn't that a little high for tap water?


SIDE NOTE: I too, have been seeing wild rooting in the Nov 16 planting, which was planted in good rooting signs and phases of the moon.. the trend continues!:thumbsup:

[Dutch Pimp]

I took your advice, Dutch and bumped the girls a little toward the back of the light footprint. The one gal that was in the back had little or no signs of curl.

If they aren't better in morning, I will continue with the other advice. Thanks all for the advice everybody. I'll try to keep that pH at 6.5.

once a leaf is curled ...it generally stays curled...IMO. Don't sweat the small stuff....watch, the NEW growth.

(ignore, the red stripe)...I like 6.7 soil ph...:thumbsup:...6.5 might be better?

[Dutch Pimp]

....NASA - Biggest Full Moon of the Year

[Weedhound]

Lola, a photo would REALLY REALLY REALLY help. i'll even take a cell phone photo but I would guess ph issues over a true "deficiency" of anything just based on odds themselves. I don't use MG, however, which is why I'd love to see a photo.