How subjective is music, really?

[overgrowthegovt]

But what about the stuff nowadays? They're amazing stuff being produced nowaday although you have to realize the model in music is changing. Everyone has more access to cheaper equipment, so more people are able to produce music. The pool of talent is diluted and wider. It's not like the 60s where in order to have a band, you gotta be really good technically so someone can front you a PA and sign you to a record deal.
But let's address a musician that could fit your criteria. What about someone like Eminem? Jay-Z? Nas? Korn? Blink 182? They all fit the criteria of something that could be in bad taste, media manipulation. However, even though I don't like any of them at all, I have listened to most of their albums and they are quite good in different ways. Like that, I'm sure their music will be heard years later. You could far back as Dire Straits (and they milked the hell out of MTV) to find MTV-influenced bands that seem to have this label as being shit music, but in reality, their music is timeless.

In reality, preference and taste are huge factors in how one determines what music they like. They are bands who are innovative groundbreakers that never get recognized until much later, like The Velvet Underground and Brian Eno and they are many a band that fail to live to the hype they generate and are long forgotten. It doesn't mean that low art is the phenomenon of the day. It's simply evolving with artists being more free from the rein of record companies.

You seem to comment positively on the fact that high musicianship is no longer a prerequisite. Yeah, I agree that there's good stuff being made nowadays, but usually nobody listens to it. I agree also that tastes and preference determine what music people like, and I'm not here to say that people should be told what to listen to by any kind of elite, I'm just saying their taste may not be too sophisticated or eclectic, and they may not care about music other than as some shallow background noise or something to grind to as they attempt to get laid.

Also, I don't really think timelessness necessarily is equated with quality--it usually is, but nobody listens to Jefferson Airplane anymore other than two songs, and I find them a hell of a lot more talented than someone like Michael Jackson, but that's just me.

[JeffersonBud]

It's really quite depressing when people say "there is no good music anymore." I tend to think the listener has become complacent and will not branch out and have an open minds to what else is going on. Even though there are many more genres, the same harmonious beats and rhythms that one likes can be found again and again in different music. I grew up on oldies and motown (from my father), and neil diamond, billy joel, elton john, the Beatles, Pink Floyd and all the other 70's and 80's culprits from my two sisters. Growing up near Detroit, I got into hip-hop and finally jazz, classical, and electronica.
I have well over 20,000 lossless songs on my digital hi-fi system. Seems like a lot of music, but I always crave more. And there is a magnitude of new music to be discovered.
It is like food. Some will like beef while others hate the taste. Some like candy while others savor the salty. I am sure most of us can say that 90% of tv channels are worthless. Same old crap. But the others can be fantastic, educational, and well made. Thats how I have always seen music. trying to find that 10% of greatness can be difficult but it's out there. Most of that 10% won't be played on the radio so it is up to the individual to branch out, listen to most of the music, and weed out the good stuff. Every tuesday is when most major albums drop. I usually spend an hour or so on i-tunes listening to all the new albums on that day. Sometimes I will find 1, sometimes I will find none. Its a good place to start to get exposed to different music.

[JaySin]

It's really quite depressing when people say "there is no good music anymore." I tend to think the listener has become complacent and will not branch out and have an open minds to what else is going on. Even though there are many more genres, the same harmonious beats and rhythms that one likes can be found again and again in different music. I grew up on oldies and motown (from my father), and neil diamond, billy joel, elton john, the Beatles, Pink Floyd and all the other 70's and 80's culprits from my two sisters. Growing up near Detroit, I got into hip-hop and finally jazz, classical, and electronica.
I have well over 20,000 lossless songs on my digital hi-fi system. Seems like a lot of music, but I always crave more. And there is a magnitude of new music to be discovered.
It is like food. Some will like beef while others hate the taste. Some like candy while others savor the salty. I am sure most of us can say that 90% of tv channels are worthless. Same old crap. But the others can be fantastic, educational, and well made. Thats how I have always seen music. trying to find that 10% of greatness can be difficult but it's out there. Most of that 10% won't be played on the radio so it is up to the individual to branch out, listen to most of the music, and weed out the good stuff. Every tuesday is when most major albums drop. I usually spend an hour or so on i-tunes listening to all the new albums on that day. Sometimes I will find 1, sometimes I will find none. Its a good place to start to get exposed to different music.

Excellent. This is how I feel about music as well.

I've found a lot of great bands/artists by word of mouth or in topics on this site. Other then that I'll just search aimlessly to find something good. Most of the good stuff I find will probably never be on the radio. Most of the time it is by people that have a passion for music and do it because that's what they love to do. Not because they want to blow up off some number one hit. They don't fall into the status quo and they do their own thing, which helps create the variety of sounds that I love to hear.

[thcbongman]

You seem to comment positively on the fact that high musicianship is no longer a prerequisite. Yeah, I agree that there's good stuff being made nowadays, but usually nobody listens to it. I agree also that tastes and preference determine what music people like, and I'm not here to say that people should be told what to listen to by any kind of elite, I'm just saying their taste may not be too sophisticated or eclectic, and they may not care about music other than as some shallow background noise or something to grind to as they attempt to get laid.

Also, I don't really think timelessness necessarily is equated with quality--it usually is, but nobody listens to Jefferson Airplane anymore other than two songs, and I find them a hell of a lot more talented than someone like Michael Jackson, but that's just me.

I am commenting positively that high musicianship is no longer a preresiquite. I don't think you need the top of your craft to produce beautiful music. I don't think you need the finest in studio production to produce a good sound. I think creativity, passion and soul are the most important elements, regardless of the genre. What good is some wankster who plays a mean guitar but puts you to sleep with his creativity?

Not only is there good stuff being made these days, amazing stuff is being produced. I agree you 100% it isn't being played on the radio and you have to search for it. But today there is so much out there, there's massive schism amongst fans of music in general because there is so much out there, whether it's indie, underground hip-hop, electronica, I'm very excited for the future of music, I think a renaissance is coming and long overdue.

Likewise on ones sophisication when it comes to music, I am a believer that listening to certain genres of music require some conditioning. Some music instantly catches while there are others that grows on you. Only someone that loves music would be willing to condition themselves to open their minds and absorb something new. You can't fault people who don't view music as a passion and want something easy, basically what they hear around them and not necessarily what they feel. It's simply because that type of music does not envoke emotion into them. That's why everyone loves the 60s loved the bands they did, the mainstay was free love: sex, drugs and rock and roll, a beautiful time for music. What about today? Urban, uptight, more politically aware society. What's popular mainly reflects that.

I think you are incredibly wrong about Jefferson Airplane. I felt they got the recognition that is merited. 3 of their albums, Volunteers, Surrealistic Pillow, and After Bathing At Baxter's are on Rolling Stone top 500. Pretty good considering it's Rolling Stone issuing the rankings. And they all outranked Michael Jackson. Personally Jefferson Airplane is a damn good band, but to the average drug-free listener whos not passionately into music, it's way too complex for them to follow.

[overgrowthegovt]

I am commenting positively that high musicianship is no longer a preresiquite. I don't think you need the top of your craft to produce beautiful music. I don't think you need the finest in studio production to produce a good sound. I think creativity, passion and soul are the most important elements, regardless of the genre. What good is some wankster who plays a mean guitar but puts you to sleep with his creativity?

Not only is there good stuff being made these days, amazing stuff is being produced. I agree you 100% it isn't being played on the radio and you have to search for it. But today there is so much out there, there's massive schism amongst fans of music in general because there is so much out there, whether it's indie, underground hip-hop, electronica, I'm very excited for the future of music, I think a renaissance is coming and long overdue.

Likewise on ones sophisication when it comes to music, I am a believer that listening to certain genres of music require some conditioning. Some music instantly catches while there are others that grows on you. Only someone that loves music would be willing to condition themselves to open their minds and absorb something new. You can't fault people who don't view music as a passion and want something easy, basically what they hear around them and not necessarily what they feel. It's simply because that type of music does not envoke emotion into them. That's why everyone loves the 60s loved the bands they did, the mainstay was free love: sex, drugs and rock and roll, a beautiful time for music. What about today? Urban, uptight, more politically aware society. What's popular mainly reflects that.

I think you are incredibly wrong about Jefferson Airplane. I felt they got the recognition that is merited. 3 of their albums, Volunteers, Surrealistic Pillow, and After Bathing At Baxter's are on Rolling Stone top 500. Pretty good considering it's Rolling Stone issuing the rankings. And they all outranked Michael Jackson. Personally Jefferson Airplane is a damn good band, but to the average drug-free listener whos not passionately into music, it's way too complex for them to follow.

I agree that creativity is the most vital component of music, but I maintain that musicianship is imperative also. I'm sorry, but if you know 10 chords on a guitar, I'm not going to want to listen to you. Even if you're a creative genius, your ability to express it is going to be limited if you're a lousy musician.

I thought only Surrealistic Pillow and Volunteers were in the top 500--must have missed After Bathing at Baxter's, but somehow I doubt it, since it was their least commercial album. Regardless, they've stood the test of time a lot more poorly than they deserve--of the many gems they made, only 2 are EVER listened to or played. And I agree it's too complex for many people to follow, but that's their limitation, not the band's, right?

[psychocat]

Sod so called high art just gimme these guys
YouTube - The Cramps-Drug train(studio version)

[thcbongman]

I agree that creativity is the most vital component of music, but I maintain that musicianship is imperative also. I'm sorry, but if you know 10 chords on a guitar, I'm not going to want to listen to you. Even if you're a creative genius, your ability to express it is going to be limited if you're a lousy musician.

I thought only Surrealistic Pillow and Volunteers were in the top 500--must have missed After Bathing at Baxter's, but somehow I doubt it, since it was their least commercial album. Regardless, they've stood the test of time a lot more poorly than they deserve--of the many gems they made, only 2 are EVER listened to or played. And I agree it's too complex for many people to follow, but that's their limitation, not the band's, right?

Of course a musician has to have the ability to play like a professional and has to do their best to perfect their craft, I'm not referring to shoddy craftmanship. I'm just saying simplicity has it's place in music and you don't have to write a complex piece to be considered great.

I might be wrong about After Bathing At Baxter's, I swear I saw that album there but regardless it's an excellent album. Although it's not exactly the type of music you would turn on at a party. I'm sure live would've been a different story. But for every band that's underrated, there are many that are overrated.