How subjective is music, really?

[overgrowthegovt]

How can opinion be anything but subjective? Different strokes for different folks, same applies to music.

I must reiterate the Shakespeare v.s. Danielle Steele comparison. Opinion's subjective, yeah, but if someone prefers Soulja Boy to Hendrix they're operating on a lower field of consciousness.

[psychocat]

Music is music , wether it's a concerto or some guy banging on a lid and singing off key , if someone gets pleasure from it then it's good.
People judge on thier own tastes and thier own assumed superiority , music can be so many things and the criteria for measuring it must be just as diverse.
I like a lot of ridiculous little ditties that as far as the purists are concerned are shit songs , they fail to understand that the songs weren't written to show off intellectually but simply to entertain , in this they more than succeed.

Assuming that your own taste in music is somehow superior to anothers is simply a sign of arrogance.

[dlovejah]

Psychocats money on this... Im a Musician and I find myself getting on a pretty high horse about music..... Which when I come around I know is wrong. In fact I listen to some Music that I just think is the most brilliant and magical stuff and other, very intelligent peoples response is, Can we listen to something that we can hear ourselves think??? To each his own.. We cant help but have opinions and biases, but nice to keep perspective. Psychocat has reminded me of that... Good thread OTG.... cheers d.:rastasmoke:

[overgrowthegovt]

Music is music , wether it's a concerto or some guy banging on a lid and singing off key , if someone gets pleasure from it then it's good.
People judge on thier own tastes and thier own assumed superiority , music can be so many things and the criteria for measuring it must be just as diverse.
I like a lot of ridiculous little ditties that as far as the purists are concerned are shit songs , they fail to understand that the songs weren't written to show off intellectually but simply to entertain , in this they more than succeed.

Assuming that your own taste in music is somehow superior to anothers is simply a sign of arrogance.

If someone reads Dante and Ralph Waldo Emerson, then of course his taste is superior to someone who reads kitsch. Call it arrogance if you like, but the same thing applies to all fields.

[psychocat]

If someone reads Dante and Ralph Waldo Emerson, then of course his taste is superior to someone who reads kitsch. Call it arrogance if you like, but the same thing applies to all fields.

I do call it arrogance.
It's simply a question of supposed superiority , it's one of the worst forms of snobbery.

Do you know how to repair a washing machine ?
If you don't then by that can we assume that anyone that can is more intelligent than you are ?

Is punk with it's simplistic lyrics and easy to play tunes without merit ?
I think not , punk is a social and political library of how society viewed many of the issues of thier day.

Satire manifests itself in cartoon form ,, does that mean that because cartoons are viewed as mainly for children that adults have nothing to gain from them ?

It's human to need to believe that one is in some way superior , yet when all is weighed and measured it is often found that it is not others who fall short but ourselves..

[JaySin]

Music is music , wether it's a concerto or some guy banging on a lid and singing off key , if someone gets pleasure from it then it's good.
People judge on thier own tastes and thier own assumed superiority , music can be so many things and the criteria for measuring it must be just as diverse.
I like a lot of ridiculous little ditties that as far as the purists are concerned are shit songs , they fail to understand that the songs weren't written to show off intellectually but simply to entertain , in this they more than succeed.

Assuming that your own taste in music is somehow superior to anothers is simply a sign of arrogance.

While this may be true, there are way too many people out there that AREN'T doing it to entertain. They are just doing it to make a big bucks. They could care less what it sounds like or what the lyrics are, as long as it makes them a "baller". Someone may not be able to sing very well or even play very well, but as long as they put there heart and soul into their music, they are much more talented then some of these main stream "musicians".

I just simply can not listen to empty songs. Someone who TRUELY appreciates music, would know that music isn't just music.

That would be like saying a car is just a car. You can't say you appreciate cars and then go buy a V6 mustang with an automatic. If you truely appreciated cars, you would have bought something of similar in value yet with much more integrity and performance. Like a Pontiac Solstice for example, it's built to perform, not just look pretty.

The music that gets played on MTV is like a beautiful girl with no brains. It may be easy to get caught up in the beat (or beauty of the girl), yet when you actually start listening to what they are saying, it makes your head hurt with the nonsense that you're hearing.

[psychocat]

I just simply can not listen to empty songs. Someone who TRUELY appreciates music, would know that music isn't just music..

, music can be so many things and the criteria for measuring it must be just as diverse. .

I really dislike having to quote myself as it means either someone has not bothered reading my post or they are deliberately ignoring select parts of it.. :thumbsup:

If nobody was being entertained then the music would simply never get played.
I love cars and all of them have something , even if it is just it's value as the absolute worst car ever.
I have owned a Porsche and they are a little overpriced.

If you don't like a style of music then simply don't listen to it.
If you wish to believe you are superior because you listen to Giacomo Puccini instead of Elvis Presley then go right ahead and scoff whilst others enjoy what they like whilst ignoring the pomposity of it all.

[JaySin]

You didn't have to quote yourself, because I read through your post several times. Most of those times were while I was replying to it.

It's easy to be entertained when you don't care about substance. Maybe I should quote my entire post, because it seems that you didn't read it.

I've actually thought bad about myself before for thinking the music I listen to is better then some of the crap I hear on the radio. Yet then I listen to it more and realize how it is nothing but a catchy beat with some lyrics that are only there as a filler. Then most of the people that listen to that stuff listen to a wide array of crappy meaningless music. Then when a good song with some substance is played, they just cast it aside as garbage just because it isn't the hottest thing on the top 40 this week.

I used to cast aside a lot of bands and singers just because they weren't really what I listened to or what was the thing to listen to. Yet now that I have grown such an appreciation for music, I have discovered just how great artists like Bob Marly and 2 Pac are. Then their are the talentless pricks that come in and just take a good sound with crappy lyrics and put it out there to make money. All the while, taking the fame from the people that truely deserve the attention for their blood, sweat and tears.

[psychocat]

And yet you chose to name some of the most succesful artists of thier time ??
How did they get lost in the crowd ?
If you're good enough then you will shine through just as those that you named did.
Yet !
I will repeat that if someone get's pleasure from something then it is validated and because you dislike it just means it's not to your taste it doesn't mean it's worthless.
If it sells then someone likes it.


I have owned many motorcycles and used to look down on anyone who rode mopeds , I lived in Holland where mopeds are everywhere .
One day I borrowed one to accompany some friends as the road we would be using was restricted to cycles and bromfietsen (the Dutch name for mopeds) , I couldn't believe how much fun I had been missing.

(A moped is any motorcycle with a less than 50cc engine)

[overgrowthegovt]

Yeah, to say that a guitar master who pours his heart and soul into his lyrics and playing is the equal of someone who makes a couple of empty MTV hits is highly disrespectful to the artistry involved in the former's auterism.

I agree with whoever said it's really all about feeling. I'd throw technical ability in there too because, while it doesn't make or break someone, it does matter. I mean, some play like Clapton and some only know 10 chords, and it's a lot harder to make truly great music using that.

I think a big problem in the era we live in is we're losing common sense as far as artistic quality. I mean, in the Renaissance you had to actually be able to PAINT a beautiful or thought-provoking piece...now you can throw some black paint on a canvas and call it "Panther in a Coal Mine" or something like that. Hence my emphasis of the importance of technical ability.